A Very Long Post

[Gary26]

I fancy myself a decent pilot, but i have been looking for someone to teach me more on the F4. I have the basics down but i need more. I cant remember his name, i think it was saber01 or something, but he gave me fits in my spit 5 against his hog1. He is in the same squad as MEf4u1d I think. I can never find anyone to DA other than the EGO types or the F4 cherry pick specialists.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Gary26
I fancy myself a decent pilot, but i have been looking for someone to teach me more on the F4. I have the basics down but i need more. I cant remember his name, i think it was saber01 or something, but he gave me fits in my spit 5 against his hog1. He is in the same squad as MEf4u1d I think. I can never find anyone to DA other than the EGO types or the F4 cherry pick specialists.

I'm not sure you'll like this answer, but ask SkyRock

I'm more than happy to help you too.  Once you have the basics down, what it pretty much comes down to is just having the opportunity to practice and refine them until you can accomplish them better than the next guy.  The best way to do that is to bang your head against the wall trying to beat someone better than you until you finally start getting him.

The MA is not a good place to do this simply because the opportunities for practice are not as available there.

[SFCHONDO]

Well Vudak same thing happened to me last night. I was in a Typhoon at 15K and oADONAIo was in a 38 at around 18K. He makes two HO passes and on the second one he takes my engine out and I glide to the deck and ditch. I simply asked him: Why would you want to HO when you clearly had all the advantage in the fight to kill me using ACM. The way I typed this question to him was not in a derogitory manner, it just merely a simple question. But his response was all defensive and then tries to make it like I was whinning. As usual they try make people on 200 think your whinning when in reality your just asking a simple question.

I really could care less if I get HO'd, picked,ganged or what ever. It just amazes me why some do it when they clearly have the superior plane, Alt and/or E advantage. Anyway I feel sorry for the guy that he is unable to answer a simple question like an adult. But as long as I have been playing these games I should have known I would get yet another guy like this.

I'll be on again tonight and as usual after the 3rd flight in a row getting lame guys doing lame things. I will start HOing everything in site if the guy turns straight at me....LOL. Oh well life goes on.  

[JB88]

i agree with what boobs ... er ...sfchondits...said about the er...oh mamma sweet deliverance.















um.  what?

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not sure you'll like this answer, but ask SkyRock

I'm more than happy to help you too.  Once you have the basics down, what it pretty much comes down to is just having the opportunity to practice and refine them until you can accomplish them better than the next guy.  The best way to do that is to bang your head against the wall trying to beat someone better than you until you finally start getting him.

The MA is not a good place to do this simply because the opportunities for practice are not as available there.

This statement holds so true. One of the reasons I would love to see kill shooter turned off in the DA. My squad used to go there all the time and fight each other. Everyone from the same base, on the same vox, and everyone was fair game. I learned more about ACM and SA jumping into a huge furball with just my squadies around, and when I did get killed it was easy for the squadie that killed me to explain my mistake to me. Since we were all squadies there were no bad feelings just one big learning experiance. Harder to do that now when the squad has to be slit in half to fight each other. Really miss those days.

[Rino]

I do wonder why you feel it's the vets that display the attitude on 200?
Sure there are a bunch that do, but there are alot that don't either.

     There is a great emphasis on competition, especially in the MA.  This can
lead to very aggressive postures between "combatants".  I do see an
awful lot of folks from all sides expecting others to play their way.

     That can manifest as the Pocket Adolf's demands that their base
grabbing take precedence over any other activities...or the Air Quaking
furballers snide replies to such demands.  to single out one group or another>.

     Why not just take a deep breath and not worry about the other guy's
motivations.  If someone runs from a fight, it may be frustrating but it is
their dime.  Asking a question like why run implies a certain smugness on
the questioner's part.  Obviously the bandit came to the same conclusion
you did, just a little earlier...they were going to lose

     As reasonable as the question may be, it is also being done to name
and shame in a pretty public way.  This may explain the negative reactions.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Rino
As reasonable as the question may be, it is also being done to name
and shame in a pretty public way.  This may explain the negative reactions.

You know, in that respect, I've tried it in PM form, but when the other guy doesn't PM you back, and uses 200 instead, you've got people wondering what you said to prompt him getting so upset, and the imagination runs wild.  So I don't do that anymore.  I figure let the community see the whole thing.  If I'm being a jerk, tell me.  If I'm being polite, tell him.  If you're not inclined to say anything, don't.

There's many factors involved here, I suppose.  But if you never question something that's going on, how are you going to help a guy out?

It should basically be like extending a hand.  The other guy can either take it, or he can say "No thanks," but instead what we all too often have here is one guy extending an insult, and the other guy sending one back, and figuring that all future extensions are insults.

I don't think it's always being done to shame someone, and if there's one thing I've learned in life, shame is one thing you can't "put" on someone, anyway.  They have to feel it themselves.

Anyway, it's worth more thought.  Thanks for shedding light on some other aspects.

[pluck]

vudak, it's a nice post and interesting question.  Honestly, I think it has alot to do with saving face.  I think there are many out there who want to land kills, who think that by landing kills they are improving...that they are good.  They don't want an honest fight risking exposure.  They no they can't fight, so they will run, or wait till they have an easier kill.

I think they see some "vets" smack talking and they figure it is the attitude of AH.  What they don't realize, i think, is that many of the vets smack talking will also take them to the DA/TA and show them some things.  I like a little story of mine involving Silat.  I fought him once long ago as a newer player, and I thought I was doing ok.  Long story short, I said nice fight to him over the arena chat.  He pm'd me and told me just what he thought, that it was not a good fight and that I was basically terrible, pretty much laughing at me the whole time:).  Though a bit of a blow he sent me some films and breif explanation explaining some things.  Honestly, at the time, after getting over my evaluation, I was thankful someone took the time to send me down the right path.  Oddly some years later I ended up a p38 dweeb and flying in same squad.....and through no fault but my own, only marginally better:)

that said, there are plenty of purse fighters out there mixed in with a few cartoon hero's and at least one or 2 king poo's of doo doo island (insert your own 4 letter words).

[FiLtH]

Personally Ive given up on people in general. Alot of what we get here are folks who have been trash talking on other games for years and they bring it in here. Some are just plain selfish and rude.

           If I had a nickel for everytime I saw a better plane run when 1v1 only to turn back once I got engaged with another id ..yadda yada.

           Some play this game as a hobby, some use it as an extention of their own lives. Probably some of them hoping its better than the real life they live. You pee in their cornflakes and you are gonna hear about it. Theres no helping that type.

           In my opinion the new guys need to be trained early, or they turn into old guys who never change, and frankly make the game less enjoyable for everyone.

           The best thing to do is practice restraint and hold your tongue. There is no point in a text battle. The types that fly only the fastest and best armed planes, running around hoing and in our view flying cheezy, think they are the coolest thing since Hillary's britches. Let them think it. Why stir the pot, it only pollutes 200.

           Nice post btw Vudak.

[Softail]

whats a lead turn?  

[sgt203]

Vudak this is a great post <>

[jamusta]

See if you would come home, you would have shot the 3 spits down and the 51 the first time and none of this would have happened.

[Kermit de frog]

Vudak, you spoke very well.  I agree with what you've said and also try to offer questions to envoke questioning within ones self.  Most times, they see that as being a jerk or "complaining about dying".

Vudak.

[Gianlupo]

Vudak, nice post and very well said. Vets should mind their tongue, because the new players usually are influenced by what is said by the old ones: if you set a certain tone on ch. 200, what else can you expect from them, than following that tone? But this is just a part of the problem, as other as said, lack of context in text communication and lack of interest in the challenge of becoming a better cartoon pilot matter, too, in what happened to you. And, let me add, maybe just ask the simple question isn't enough, you have to make quite clear that you are not complaining, just asking.

Originally posted by Softail
whats a lead turn?  

Basically, a lead turn is defined as a turn you begin before passing your opponent's 3/9 line (3/9 line is the lateral axis of the plane, so called because it runs from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clok), usually in a front quarter approach. Lead turn allows you to gain a firing position on your opponent's rear quarter at a close distance: it is particularly clear in the case of a non maneuvering opponent.

Think about flying straight to a bomber that's approaching you from ahead. Imagine you're not HO, but your flight paths are offsets, let's say his flight path is on your right. If you turn your plane when you've already passed his 3/9 line, you'll end on his six, but on a fairly great distance, maybe 1.5/2 k. If you start your turn before you pass his 3/9 line, say, when he's about at your 2 o'clock, you'll end up on his six but at close range, probably already well within the firing envelope, allowing you to take the shot.

Against fighters it works the same way, except that, of course, the enemy fighter will maneuver, so you won't have a dead six shot, but, if the timing was right, you'll find yourself in his rear quarter, with a small angle between his tail and your nose (this angle is called Angle Off Tail) and at short distance. Basically, lead turns allow you to reduce distance and AOT from your target.

You may read this column at simhq.com:

It' all a matter of your perspective, part III

I'm linking just the part where Mr. Bush define the lead turn, but I strongly suggest you to read all the other parts of this article, and, in general, any of his. You can find them at this address:

Simhq's Air Combat Corner Library

lots of useful stuff, here.

Plus, if you PM me your e mail, I'll send you something you may want to read, or just keep as a reference for air to air combat.

I hope this will help you, and, if any of you old farts thinks I made some mistake in what I wrote, please, correct me! (This is the spirit we'd like to see in Arenas, isn't it Vudak? )

EDIT: corrected a typo.

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by Vudak
{SNIP}

yeah man, i had the same thing with a new guy callled kazaa a few months back. He was playing lame tactics and i died to them a few times. when i offered DA he laughed at me, and assumed i was being a jerk.
good post vudak, doubt many will listen sadly.