Author Topic: Trim, Combat trim, etc  (Read 444 times)

Offline Ghosth

  • AH Training Corps (retired)
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8497
      • http://332nd.org
Trim, Combat trim, etc
« on: September 10, 2007, 05:03:38 PM »
Here is an oldie but a goodie that is still very much applicable today.

http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/trim.htm

Offline TequilaChaser

  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10173
      • The Damned - founded by Ptero in 1988
Trim, Combat trim, etc
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 11:22:41 PM »
Yes it is Ghosth, Thanks for posting the link, Sir!!!  
 I thought Lephturn had let us include this on  the Trainer's Website...(edit: yep it is there under: Trim & Auto Trim)


A few really GOOD STRONG POINTS I would like to quote from Lephturn's  Aces High Trim write-up. These particular points should open the eyes to some and answer alot of the myths others have when they think Trimming up their ELV tab helps them beat an opponent in same type plane. although it more than likely was they was able to gain better angles quicker or the other guy made a mistake in reality
    • CT is a system that automatically adjusts the trim tabs on your aircraft while in flight to get you "close" to an in trim condition within the normal flight envelope.  While CT does automatically adjust your trim for you, it does not get the trim exactly right.
    • Being out of trim in a low speed turn fight can make maneuvering more difficult, and it can make it very difficult to set up a good guns solution.  In addition to the low speed, CT does not take into account the effect of deploying combat flaps on your trim condition.  Since many aircraft make use of combat flaps in low speed air combat, this can lead to an aircraft that is far out of trim, and the resulting control issues and problems setting up a stable shot.
    • While CT is fine for just cruising around looking for a fight, when you actually engage in combat, you may or may not want to use CT depending on the conditions.  The first limitation of CT is that it's table has a relatively small range of speeds for which it has corresponding trim conditions.  Although I do not know the exact numbers, in my estimation any speed below about 150 or over about 400 depending on the plane tends to be outside CT's scope of adjustment.
    • There are some reasons that you may want to disable Combat Trim entirely.  If you are comfortable with the manual trim adjustments and have a good control setup, pure manual trim when done properly can be an advantage, especially at the extremes of the flight envelope.
    • Another reason you may want to disable CT is to increase the "feel" you get from the flight model.  With CT enabled, you don't sense the changes in speed through your trim balance like you would normally because CT is adjusting your trim condition to match your speed.  Some pilots find this a valuable type of feedback, and they disable CT entirely to ensure they get the additional feedback that only manually trimming your plane can give.
    • [/COLOR][/B]


    Now, one point I would offer a different view on...
      • At low speeds such as those experienced in a sustained angles fight, CT may not give me enough up elevator trim for a proper center point.[/COLOR][/B]
      Lephturn's observation is that when in a slow speed sustained angles/turn fight , one might find or think CT limits the Elevator Up trim, possibly not giving one a proper center point or stable enough platform to shoot from.  

      My differing view is that when in a slow speed sustained angles/turn fight , one might find or think CT over compensates/allows to much for  the Elevator Up trim, possibly not giving one a proper center point or stable enough platform to shoot from.
      As Lephturn mention's at very high & very low speeds it is no where near accurate and when in a very slow knife fight, using flaps magnifys the problem even more, in this instance: imagine or picture the bouncing nose syndrome and/or  very erratic shooting platform . This comes from flying with improper trim


      I , along with quiet a bit of others prefer to fly with our trim settings trimmed for a slight nose low atitude. Usually trimmed at or around the particular plane's level flight Crusing Speed that  any of us are flying at the time. This speed can rnage anywhere from say 250 to 350 to 375   mph IAS depending on the  Era ( Early War, Mid War, Late War plane type ). This gives back a couple of things:
        • When we are coming over the top and start back on the down cycle of a vertical loop or start a dive, we gain speed quicker. As with trim set this way we do not have to fight the drag of the CT, and are able to pick up speed quicker

          • When we get ready to saddle up or take a deflection shot, we are not fidgeting with any nose bounce, or fighting the CT(combat trim)[/COLOR][/B]
          hope these specific points I quoted from Lephturn helps or at least opens the eyes for some players..... Lephturn wrote an outstanding writeup ,  and the community of Aces High should show their gratitude!
        "When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC