English as the official language of the USA

[storch]

Originally posted by bozon
Which language did they debate in?

pig latin

[culero]

Originally posted by storch
snip
with regard to the changing demographics I have been informing racist and xenophobic anglos here for the last thirty years that when the last bigot wants to clear out of miami he should see me for gas money.  be sure of this, we will out work and out populate you guys so you should be nice to us.  we will own you. all your cities will belong to us.

Orale, vato!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by storch
if you consider that the southern part of the US and all of california was discovered and largely settled by the spanish then your premis is off.  

while I agree that english should be the language of america my reason for doing so is a matter of practicality not blind xenophobia.  

english is the language of commerce and all successful and ambitious people the world over dominate the language.  sometimes even better than some of the native born.  

with regard to the changing demographics I have been informing racist and xenophobic anglos here for the last thirty years that when the last bigot wants to clear out of miami he should see me for gas money.  be sure of this, we will out work and out populate you guys so you should be nice to us.  we will own you. all your cities will belong to us.

So tell  me.
When Castro is finally gone.
Will all the Cubans who have whined and yelled and screamed about him for all these years finally go back the hell home to Cuba?
I mean since they care about it so much and all.

When my grandfather immigrated here back in 1920.
He specifically decided not to teach his children how to speak Spanish.
In his own words.

"When you move to a country you learn how to speak THEIR language.
You don't expect them to learn or understand yours.
And I didn't want our family to be known as just another group of spics."

Those were his words. Not mine.
Though I thoroughly agree with them.

By the time he died. He spoke English better then most Americans I've ever met.

In fact he sounded almost exactly like the actor.John Houseman
Actually if you placed bushy white eyebrows on him. Houseman any my grandfather would look almost identical too.

Housemen used to do the Smith Barney commercials. "They make money the old fashioned way. They earn it."
He is also known for his role as Professor Charles W. Kingsfield, Jr in
The Paper Chase

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by storch
pig latin

The founding fathers spoke Cuban??

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by storch
we will out work

Wrong answer

I looked it up.

You may ending up owning us. but only because it makes it alot easier to collect welfare, and free medical services and work off the books to have extra money.


9.9% of Cuban households on SSI ( a form of welfare)

"Heavy refugee use of SSI continues. SSI usage overall is similar between native and immigrant-headed households: in 2005, about 4 percent of native-headed households received welfare benefits through SSI, compared to 4.4 percent of immigrant-headed households (which, because of welfare reform, are almost certainly disproportionately refugees).4  This is buttressed by the data by country of origin; though the government surveys used to measure such things do not record the specific immigration status (and so cannot focus specifically on refugees), certain countries are more likely to send refugees than others, and people from those countries have high rates of SSI use. For instance, 15.4 percent of households headed by someone born in Russia, long a major source of refugees, collected SSI in 2005, the highest rate among the top-25 immigrant-sending countries. The same is true for other refugee-sending countries; 12.4 percent of Iranian-born households collect SSI, as to 9.9 percent of Cuban households, and 6.3 percent of Vietnamese households"

Center for Immigration Studies

[culero]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
snip
When my grandfather immigrated here back in 1920.
He specifically decided not to teach his children how to speak Spanish.
In his own words.

"When you move to a country you learn how to speak THEIR language.
You don't expect them to learn or understand yours.
And I didn't want our family to be known as just another group of spics."

Those were his words. Not mine.
Though I thoroughly agree with them.

Dred, don't misunderstand what I am going to say here. I thoroughly respect what your abuelo said, because his intent was correct. I applaud him.

However, I believe he was wrong in how he applied that intent. I do believe that it is in the best interest of Hispanic immigrants to embrace the English-speaking culture of the US. I just do not believe it is in their best interest to abandon their Spanish.

I live in a region that is demographically 90% Hispanic. I do not make that number up, its from US Census data. If inaccurate, its conservative in that percentage due to illegals that weren't counted.

I am a gringo. My family roots are Irish/Scotch in nationality, Norman/German genetically. My family now has 4 generations born here in this region, my grandparents having moved here from Kansas (paternal) and Kentucky (maternal) a century or so ago. I love my community, and embrace its culture. I am a native "Texican" (valid historic term, look it up) in the truest sense.

The Hispanic community here is comprised of four groups in relation to this discussion:

1) Long-time resident families here that are bi-lingual
2) Long-time resident families here that are not bi-lingual (English only)
3) Immigrant families here that are bi-lingual
4) Immigrant families here that are not bi-lingual (Spanish only)

It is my observation (I'm 54 years old now) that its the bi-lingual families of both categories that prosper the best. They are able to enjoy their cultural roots while being fully immersed in the society of the US.

What is key, though, is that they are able to interact with Mexicans. This is important, because Mexico is a huge market which has always been and will continue to be the single factor which makes our regional economy thrive. Simply put, many many many millions of dollars a year come into the US economy from Mexico. We benefit from it locally, and corporations across the US who do business here benefit as well.

For instance, you may know who Simon Properties is. Unless I am wrong, they are the largest operator of shopping malls in the US, certainly one of. Their largest-grossing property is La Plaza Mall here in sleepy little McAllen, Texas. Its estimated that roughly 30% of the money spent there is directly Mexican.

The US consumer also benefits hugely from our regional economy. The "Maquila" industries here utilize Mexican labor to cut costs on the manufacture of a plethora of goods we all consume. Zenith TVs, TRW auto repair parts, etc, are products produced here by Mexicans assembling component parts that US factory workers produced (we do the "high-tech" then they put it together). Our stuff gets cheaper, and there's the side benefit that all those Mexican workers who are earning 3 times the normal wage for a Mexican worker then come across the border to spend their cash in our much superior shopping environment.

The bottom line is that all the really smart folks here are bi-lingual.

Like, for instance, geniuses such as myself

PS - I also have a very large noodle. You should be in awe

[lazs2]

yep storch.. I don't have much experiance with cubans but I do have a lot with your "cousins" and the cubans would have to be about 3 times more productive than their cousins to outwork anyone born here...

It takes 3 mexicans working overtime to do the same work of one American.   Often... they don't even understand each other.   They have no idea what tools are past a shovel and they are pretty much unteachable from generations of never having seen tools.    

If by "outwork" you mean that the 3 of them are willing to work for less than a third of what the American will and that they will work till darkthirty to get the job done... then... yeah.. you may have a case... if you don't mind a somewhat inferior result.

lazs

[john9001]

when my grand mother came from Italy she told my mother, "you american now, you speak american".

[storch]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
So tell  me.
When Castro is finally gone.
Will all the Cubans who have whined and yelled and screamed about him for all these years finally go back the hell home to Cuba?
I mean since they care about it so much and all.

When my grandfather immigrated here back in 1920.
He specifically decided not to teach his children how to speak Spanish.
In his own words.

"When you move to a country you learn how to speak THEIR language.
You don't expect them to learn or understand yours.
And I didn't want our family to be known as just another group of spics."

Those were his words. Not mine.
Though I thoroughly agree with them.

By the time he died. He spoke English better then most Americans I've ever met.

In fact he sounded almost exactly like the actor.John Houseman
Actually if you placed bushy white eyebrows on him. Houseman any my grandfather would look almost identical too.

Housemen used to do the Smith Barney commercials. "They make money the old fashioned way. They earn it."
He is also known for his role as Professor Charles W. Kingsfield, Jr in
The Paper Chase

I would be akin your grandfather.  my spoken english is flawless and without accent.  my written english is above average.  my spanish is on par with my english so I am completely bilingual but I can speak portuguese and creole french fluently thereby being able to communicate with the largest percentage of my clientel base here in miami.  there is a large influx of russians so I am beginning to pick up a few russian words here and there as well as arabic from my neighbors.

it should be evident from my posting that I am american first and foremost but also quite comfortable with my heritage which I consider to be the equal of anyone else's.  as culero rightly points out those of us who are are multilingual hold a considerable edge in the marketplace whether we be employees or entreprenuers.

my wife is a new jersey babe who is fifty now but still a babe to me.  she comes from a heritage similar to yours.  her parents were both iberocelts from asturias.  I'm a typical cuban mixed breed mutt with italian/spanish/french/african/carib indian blood.   our children all speak english at home but are completely bilingual.  their spanish sound like they are gringos speaking spanish but it is adequate inspite of being heavily accented.  

I'm a descendant from very sturdy peasant stock and I guarantee you that I and the mexicans, central americans and caribbean islanders that work for me are a very dynamic, intelligent group of tigers that are every bit the equal if not superior to any other workforce within our very highly specialized and technically demanding field.  I don't buy the one american will work like three mexicans BS because I have seen it put to the test many times over.  the mexicans (or insert favorite group you may want to disparage here) that I work with do so with competence, dedication and a pride of workmanship that are the hallmarks of any true craftsman.

[FiLtH]

Knowing more than one language is great. But I want my stop sign to say STOP, and the National Anthem sung in english.

[storch]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Wrong answer

I looked it up.

You may ending up owning us. but only because it makes it alot easier to collect welfare, and free medical services and work off the books to have extra money.


9.9% of Cuban households on SSI ( a form of welfare)

"Heavy refugee use of SSI continues. SSI usage overall is similar between native and immigrant-headed households: in 2005, about 4 percent of native-headed households received welfare benefits through SSI, compared to 4.4 percent of immigrant-headed households (which, because of welfare reform, are almost certainly disproportionately refugees).4  This is buttressed by the data by country of origin; though the government surveys used to measure such things do not record the specific immigration status (and so cannot focus specifically on refugees), certain countries are more likely to send refugees than others, and people from those countries have high rates of SSI use. For instance, 15.4 percent of households headed by someone born in Russia, long a major source of refugees, collected SSI in 2005, the highest rate among the top-25 immigrant-sending countries. The same is true for other refugee-sending countries; 12.4 percent of Iranian-born households collect SSI, as to 9.9 percent of Cuban households, and 6.3 percent of Vietnamese households"

Center for Immigration Studies

no doubt that the immigrants that are arriving here recently are not of the same caliber and temperment of those that arrived in the 1960's.  if you come to miami you will see what once was a laconic seaside village which operated seasonally that has been transformed into a major port of entry and commerce with the americas and the world at large by the hard work, preseverance, grit and determination of the cuban immigrant.  people like my my mom and dad their brothers and sisters and their parents.  miami is a monument to the brilliance of the american free enterprise system industry of my people who also happen to your people because people of cuban heritage are very patriotic americans.

[lazs2]

storch... the stats show that you are perhaps not right on the work ethic of the immigrants and illegals that have come here after the 60's...  at least you admit this.

The illegals we have here....mexicans... some central amercians... have no real skills and little education... best I can tell... they have below average IQ's

They do not have a tradition or training in working smart and for the most part... have no real familiarity with modern tools or society.   They tend to work hard but not smart nor... do they have very high standards on the work that they do accomplish..  they tend to trash areas unless watched like hawks and have no understanding of why they should not just litter and destroy.

Sadly.... unlike yourself... they are not fluent in even one language.   I am learning spanish and see how badly they butcher even that.   It is so bad that they can barely communicate amoungst themselves much less learn another langurage... we are not getting the cream of the crop in the illegals.

They are mostly unteachable except in the most rudimentary of physical skills and even then revert to old ways when not watched.

The offspring of legal immigrants are a whole nother story tho...  they retain some of the hard work ethic and some of the better traditions and culture while speaking english and being every bit as skilled and educated as any other native born American... they fit well into society and the workforce..

but... that is only in a home with values... all bets are off when the home is parented by worthless illegals.

lazs

[storch]

maybe I'll learn to post photos of some of our work and the workshop and also of the guys that make beautiful things from steel and aluminum there.  it irks me to read stuff like that you post lazs because I can't believe the good ones only come here.

some of the guys that seek work with us are fully well trained and experienced blacksmiths who are accustomed to working with charcoal forges a hammer their tongs and an anvil.  once you show them an english wheel and a planishing hammer many pick up the concept of what to do with the tools right away.

we just purchased some new pulse on pulse mig welders with the cobra gun system that are the devil to program properly.  I set the machines aside and instructed the welders to not mess with them until the lincoln rep could stop by and educate us on their proper usage.  

my welding foreman started fiddling with one of the machines and after about an hour of trial and error he was producing tig type welds with the new machine.  the lincoln rep got by the shop some days later and wanted to know why I needed him.  I told him to go buy us some donuts.  

the welding foreman is guatemalan and speaks no english.  he looks dumber than a box of rocks but is in fact one of the most intelligent and capable welders I have ever had the pleasure to work with.

[Sabre]

I believe we should have an official national language, because it serves to unite us and is indespensible in helping immigrants to assimilate and be successful.  I believe that language should be English, first because it is the traditional common language of the United States, and second because it is the language of success throughout the developed world.

On a side note, I believe that all government funding of bilingual documents (voting materials, for example) should end.  What private companies choose to do is there own business, of course.  A rudimentary fluency and literacy in English should be a requirement for both permanent and temporary residency in the US.

[lazs2]

storch...  are you saying that you hire illegals?   that is what I am talking about.

The illegals are not the cream of the crop... in the border states they are just any criminal who can wade across the rio grande.

perhaps you didn't read what I wrote and are confusing illegals with real immigrants..

I do not get the two confused.  Read what I said.   I believe that there is a huge difference between those who break another countries laws and sneak in and those who wish to become a part of that country.

Like I said... with the illegals.. we are not getting the cream of the crop.   Americans here who are sons of mexicans will tell you the same... they are disgusted by the losers that are sneaking across the border...  I good tilesetter for instance I know refuses to use illegals because it is just too much trouble... he takes pride in his work.

My girlfriend absolutely hates illegals.. she is of mexican parents and feels that all their hard work is wasted because of the illegals..  she rightly feels that she is being tainted by the scum illegals living 10 to a house and trashing the neighborhoods.   I went to a complaint the other day of odors and found a group of illegals renting a home had a plugged sewer so they simply dug a slit trench in the backyard and opended up the cleanout at the outside wall to let the raw sewage run into the trench and a hole they had dug... right near the swingset by the way.

no one spoke english... I believe the slumlord should have been arrested... I believe that if you are hiring illegals that you should be imprisoned.

lazs