Intersting comment on HO...

[Xargos]

Originally posted by humble
This is an ignorant comment....
 

The TRUTH is not an ignorant comment.  The Russian high command has never cared about the well being of any of their people.

[Flint]

Maybe - but that's a big leap to encouraging your forces to waste their lives futliey.

The ho is valid  tactic if your plane is completely outperformed by the enemy.

[Xargos]

The Russians took chances in battle because they knew they WOULD be shot once they returned if they didn't perform their duties.

My point is, using Russian tactics is not always productive to good health.

P.S.  Most pilots in WWII never got the chance to learn the tactic we take for granted in this game because they died before they got the chance.  I'm a lousy stick, but I don't use history as an excuse for my lack of skill.

[bombnbail]

My point is, using Russian tactics is not always productive to good health.

And exactly what part of WAR is productive to good health?

P.S.  Most pilots in WWII never got the chance to learn the tactic we take for granted in this game because they died before they got the chance.  

that is another dumb comment.  By the Time the US became envolved in the war, most of the LW pilots were seasoned veterans and so the IJN IJA, as well as Great Britian, France and Italy.  

US trained pilots were recruited prior to the US envolvment.  

Remember, many of the ACM you see here were developed over a long time.  Only until pilots began to put this into book form was any concise reference avaliable.  Until then it was word of mouth, one pilot teaching another.  

It was common practice in all Air Forces for rookie pilots to be paired with seasoned veterans (even in the bombers), it saved lives and gave the rookie someone to learn from.

BnB

[Xargos]

How can you say it's a dumb commit when you just said it yourself that the tactics where developed over a period of time?  Many pilots only got a few hours of actual combat training in the aircraft before they where sent into battle.  You make it sound as if they had several years.

The Germans lost many of their good pilots in BoB.

And what's with the shades?

[Xargos]

Sweet2th  

[humble]

Originally posted by Xargos
The TRUTH is not an ignorant comment.  The Russian high command has never cared about the well being of any of their people.

And what makes you think you have a clue as to what the "truth" is? Everything you've written in this thread is a half truth....

1) All armies "shot" people who failed to perform. You want to understand military discipline,  go back to the code of conduct for a Roman Centurion. No question that the Russians shot people and that Stalin was a butcher...but don't confuse that with tactics. The Russians were very well led and had excellent tactics as the war progressed. They're poor leadership was early in the war was the result of the purge before the war. Two of the best US generals in history had the same "disregard" for human lives....Grant and Patton. Your comments on this topic are ignorant and show a lack of understanding of both history and military realities.

2) All military aviators were considered elite and a lot was invested in them. The Russians and the Germans both had a number of veterans of the Spanish civil war. Tactics evolved around the combination of plane and national personality. The Germans favored the Bolke doctrine and really pioneered E fighting. The Japanese viewed aerial combat as an extension of samurai combat and evolved planes and tactics based on the concept of the duel. The Italians were among the best acrobatic pilots in the world and there planes and tactics reflected that. As these contrasting styles clashed tactics were refined for each. Frontal attacks were used whenever they made tactical sense as a matter of doctrine...

3) Sim pilots have the advantage of no real death and potentially thousands of hours of combat time. The tactics are no better but the "experience" factor actually has some merit. However look at flying in an FSO or scenario as a more realistic indicator of true pilot ability and tactics...

[dedalos]

Originally posted by bombnbail
Until I read this, I wasn't going to comment.  But, you need to either join the military for a few years, or you need to spend some time studying history.  

They spent 5 days shelling the crap out of a rock called Iwojima.  They sent in two divisions of marines.  thats all, just 2 divisions.  They had one other division still on board the transports but refused to send them iin, even tho the marines were getting the crap shot out of em.  

That was just the last major island landing.  

It is also why the A-bomb was used, to limit friendly casualties and bring the war to a close.  

In the 1940s they didn't have smart bombs.  Bombing was a chancy thing, so it required troops on the ground to do the hard part, root out the enemy and kill him.  

Lots of men died, lots of Officers died leading their men, and lots of Generals died directing the fight.  ON ALL SIDES.

I don't know what you mean by cells but you are not well read in history or ww2.  

BTW  IwoJima saved a lot of lives after those marines captured it.  Maybe thats why it was worth the cost.

< salute >

BnB

I have.  I spent a couple of years in the military.  Do I qualify to have an opinion now? Do I need history lessons?  I dont think so.  You see, IwoJima was not the only rock they tried to take.  I said nothing about that rock. Maybe the only one you know off?  

You completely missed my point here.  Here it is again.  Just because something was done in real life, it does not mean it was smart or the right thing to do or . . . . .  Now, take that in to a game and you can be completly off, since a game is, well, just a game.

As far as high ranked officers dieing, please.  Maybe by accident.  Their job is to sit in the back and tell you why you need to go die.

[REP0MAN]

Originally posted by Capz
No one complains about HOing bombers, that is probably the best tactic to take down buffs in AH.  We're talking about fighters and no, it's not a valid tactic, its lame.  If you aren't good enough to fly your plane to your opponents 6 and get a a shot, you shouldn't be playing, IMO.

Here's one for your commercial reel Waffle.

Outta net a ton of new players like this!

[Xargos]

Humble, you're reading too much into what I was trying to say.  I was referring to the Purge, just couldn't remember it's name.


P.S.  Sherman was more of a war criminal then Grant.  

[GunnerCAF]

The HO was used in WW2.  AH is a WW2 air combat simulator.  A HO is a valid tactic in AH because you can.  Is it a good tactic?

Be a teacher.  You don't need to verbally shame people from using the HO.... just  shoot them down, they will learn.  

Gunner

[BlauK]

I am amazed how many times it has to be said that it requires 2 to make an HO!!! If you don't like HO's, DON'T FLY HO:s!!! They are easy to avoid.

But if and when you decide to HO, don't whine when you get beat by an "invalid tactic"

If you HO, never expect a cold merge from the opponent... unless you are at DA and and have agreed on such.

[Boxboy]

Originally posted by dedalos
I have.  I spent a couple of years in the military.  Do I qualify to have an opinion now? Do I need history lessons?  I dont think so.  You see, IwoJima was not the only rock they tried to take.  I said nothing about that rock. Maybe the only one you know off?  

You completely missed my point here.  Here it is again.  Just because something was done in real life, it does not mean it was smart or the right thing to do or . . . . .  Now, take that in to a game and you can be completly off, since a game is, well, just a game.

As far as high ranked officers dieing, please.  Maybe by accident.  Their job is to sit in the back and tell you why you need to go die.

Had a tough time in the military I see, by your replies I can only assume you really hated the military and couldn't wait to get out.  Wonder what the discharge title was:rofl

[bombnbail]

Originally posted by dedalos
I have.  I spent a couple of years in the military.  Do I qualify to have an opinion now? Do I need history lessons?  I dont think so.  You see, IwoJima was not the only rock they tried to take.  I said nothing about that rock. Maybe the only one you know off?  

You completely missed my point here.  Here it is again.  Just because something was done in real life, it does not mean it was smart or the right thing to do or . . . . .  Now, take that in to a game and you can be completly off, since a game is, well, just a game.

As far as high ranked officers dieing, please.  Maybe by accident.  Their job is to sit in the back and tell you why you need to go die.

Well, yes you have an opinion, and yes, you can post it here.  

Do you need history lessons?  I'll leave that up to you, because we didn't try to take those "rocks"  we did take them, at the expense of a lot of guys who thought the price was worth it.

More than one high ranking officer died doing their job, and it was not an accident.  How do I know, well I read history, and I don't just read the american version of history.  More than one side to a story and often as not, the stories differ only in the telling.

This is a game, while we do make comparisons to real life, don't belittle the lives lost in the real war.  Without the military no nation is safe, no people can be free, and no government can rule.  

Sorry for high jacking your thread.  carry on.

< salute >

[humble]

Originally posted by Xargos
Humble, you're reading too much into what I was trying to say.  I was referring to the Purge, just couldn't remember it's name.


P.S.  Sherman was more of a war criminal then Grant.  

No question Stalin was up there with Gengis Khan as a butcher, I also dont disagree that the soviets used people to stop bullets an awful lot. However the elite guards units where well taken care of and had the best training and equipment. The poiny I was trying to mkae is that a plane and pilot is a valuable commodity. The use of a HO as a tactic was based on best percentages not callousness.....didnt mean to over react:)....