Author Topic: Intersting comment on HO...  (Read 7196 times)

Offline humble

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Intersting comment on HO...
« on: September 14, 2007, 09:40:31 AM »
I was browsing a Russian aviation site and happened across this. I left it in context but if you read it it clearly shows that the russians (like the US in the PAC) actually suggested the frontal (HO) attack as the preferred strategy in some circumstances...

Separate from game play issues...the reality is that the frontal attack was a legitimate tactic in WW2.

   During the trials, Institute specialists simulated aerial combat between a Bf 109F and a Russian Yak-1 (No. 0511), and worked out recommendations for Red Army Air Forces flight personnel. It turned out that the Soviet fighter had more chances to- win the greater the altitude. If the Me 109F was superior close to the ground and head-on attacks were recommended to our pilots then, at an altitude of 3000 meters, the chances were even and at 5000 meters, the Yak allegedly outperformed its adversary in speed and maneuverability. In other words, the suggestion was for pilots to draw German fighters to high altitudes.
   Alas, these recommendations did not reflect the true state of affairs. From German materials and test results obtained in Britain, it turned out that the Bf 109F with a DB 60IN engine had a maximum speed of 597-600 km/h16 at an altitude of 6000 meters, rather than at the 552 km/h registered at the Air Forces Scientific Research Institute. It meant that the Messerschmitt surpassed all domestic fighters here, the series-produced MiG-3 included. But, it is quite clear why principal attention in the Soviet Union was paid to enemy fighter performance near the ground. It was just there where the main battles of the first phase of war took place and our aircraft designers were required urgently to improve the flight performance of domestic aircraft at low altitudes.

source

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Offline lengro

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2007, 10:28:10 AM »
Nice website you have found - thank you.

I am not surprised that HO's is suggested in real life, if testing shows it is to your advantage under the given circumstances. After all - its about optimizing chances of survival.

In our virtual life though - it is a boring tactic which don't bring any pleasure to the fight (for me anyway).
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Offline dedalos

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2007, 11:32:48 AM »
You guys are funny.  Valid tactic.  TV said, Allies recommended :rofl   Do you have any  idea what war is about?  You said they said HO was a valid tactic right?  Guess what, those are the same people clearing mine fields using their own troops.  Once in the army, you are just a number.  The war is won by eliminating the enemy's numbers or producing more numbers than the other guy.  If you could disable 1 German plane by going HO with it, do you think it mattered to the generals if you lost your life doing it?  If they could produce planes and pilots faster than Germany, that was a valid tactic. It was valid for Russia.  Not for the pilot.

News flash.  WWII is over and this is a game.  WWII tactics are not an excuse
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Offline Tiger

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 11:41:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
 WWII is over and this is a game.  


This whole time I thought I was controlloing the destiny of some poor pilot in a nation connected via a bend in the space continuum.

Now you tell me this is just a game?!?!?!!!!

Offline Xargos

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2007, 11:52:47 AM »
Don't forget that this same country would send ten soldiers into battle with only one rifle between them and expect the others to keep picking up that same rifle after it's holder died.  The Russians did not care if their pilots died in the HO.
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Offline titanic3

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2007, 11:58:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
Don't forget that this same country would send ten soldiers into battle with only one rifle between them and expect the others to keep picking up that same rifle after it's holder died.  The Russians did not care if their pilots died in the HO.


not saying i'm racist...... but i kinda agree. russains knew no pain, all they did was just do banzai charges until their enenmy ran out of bullets and got overrun.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Chalenge

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2007, 12:01:50 PM »
Ever since the first air combat in world war 1 it has been accepted that when you are attacked from above the only valid option is to turn into your attacker. Sometimes that turns into a head on pass and sometimes not. I dont see anything wrong with shooting head on if thats what you want to do. In other situations it probably is a good indication that someone lacks the knowledge or experience to get any other shot.
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Offline Tiger

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2007, 12:17:59 PM »
Here's the thinking of most people who HO.

I have guns pointing to the front of my plane.  Enemy planes within range, enemy plane in gunsight.  Pull trigger.

They really don't care the orientation of that enemy plane... they just see a target in a gun sight.

You really think they flew all that way to do nothing but HO???  Then turn and show them your six... if they don't shoot you, you know they are fulltime HO'ers, if you end up in the tower, well...

Offline rodak

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2007, 12:22:20 PM »
yawn.................

Offline Ack-Ack

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2007, 12:31:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chalenge
In other situations it probably is a good indication that someone lacks the knowledge or experience to get any other shot.



While that may hold true in AH, it didn't in real life.  Whether we like to admit it or not, head on shots were a valid and often used tactic by real fighter pilots.

For example, by the time Richard Bong reached 21 kills, half of those kills were from head on shots he did.  These weren't head on shots he was forced into taking but a tactic he willingly engaged in.  


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Offline Xjazz

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2007, 01:14:13 PM »
In real life the bullets didn't hit 1-2sec after the HO merge.

The online flying experience is defined by lag.

Offline lengro

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2007, 01:33:33 PM »
Dedalos,

thank you for your lecture about what war is and how it is won and all...

But Sir, I would much prefer you spend your time teaching me to become a better AH2 pilot :)
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Offline Oldman731

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2007, 01:56:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by titanic3
not saying i'm racist...... but i kinda agree. russains knew no pain, all they did was just do banzai charges until their enenmy ran out of bullets and got overrun.

You have read too many German general accounts, and not enough others.

- oldman

Offline VansCrew1

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2007, 02:09:43 PM »
Hoing is not a Valid tactic.In the Pacific then Americans did have an advantage vs the Jap fighters .Americans did HO,Not often but vs the weak A6m's and what now it was easy.Plus the f6f was one of the strongest birds in the air at that time.It could take the damage from a a6m hoing.But in the East vs German steal American pilots would be stupid to Ho say a 109 or 190 .Unlike in the game the German's would rape American fighters in the HO. German fighters were built stronger and had the advantage of canon.

Simply but Hoing is not a valid tactic. I know all you dweebs watching dogfights they said Hoing is a valid tatic.And im willing to bet you also thought that Ramming a ship in the game would think it. Hoing in the game is a lame move.It is not a tactic,It's dweebdome.
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Offline lengro

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Intersting comment on HO...
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2007, 02:13:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VansCrew1
Hoing is not a Valid tactic.In the Pacific then Americans did have an advantage vs the Japanese fighters


Fixed!  :aok
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