Bomber Dogfights

[Laciner]

I've been reading through Alfred Price's "Aircraft Profile 234: Heinkel He-177 Greif", and this part caught my eye. It's from a section about the Hs 293, a radio-controlled MCLOS glide bomb:

"It was on the afternoon of November 21, 1943, that the He 177 flew its first major operation.  On that day Major Mons, the commander of the Second Gruppe of Kampfgeschwader 40 (II./K.G.40), led 25 of these bombers again the large convoy SL139/MKS 30 as it was moving northwards in a position some 420 miles to the north-east of Cape Finisterre, Spain.  Each of the He 177s carried two glider-bombs."

Dot dot dot. Some of the He 177s miss the convoy and engage two straggling merchantmen, Marsa and Delius. Six bombs miss, and the third He 177 has to break off because its port engine bursts spontaneously into flames. The seventh bomb hits and sinks the Marsa. Delius is hit but survives. Dot dot dot.

"While Marsa and Delius were engaged in their individual struggles for survival, another equally-remarkable battle was being fought out in the vicinity of the main body of ships.  Pilot Officer A. Wilson and his crew, on board Consolidated Liberator 'K' of No. 224 Squadron, Royal Air Force Coastal Command, had been engaged in providing anti-submarine cover.  Since their duty was to do everything possible to ensure the 'safe and timely arrival of the convoy', they decided this could include air-to-air combat.  As the heavily-laden Heinkels started on their straight-and-level attack runs with the glider-bombs, the British crew was able to cause consternation.  The first He 177 they attacked broke away, trailing smoke.  The second jettisoned its glider-bombs and made off.  Pilot Officer Wilson followed and his front gunner managed to get in a good burst which caused the enemy's starboard engine to smoke.  In the event, the German bomber escaped into a patch of low cloud.  The Liberator then returned to the convoy, where two more He 177s were engaged.

All-in-all, it had been a remarkable series of combats, the large heavy bombers cavorting across the sky in lumbering imitation of their single-engined counterparts.  Wilson's aggressiveness undoubtedly contributed to the fact that the German bombers did not success in scoring any hits with their glider-bombs on ships in the main body of the convoy; nor did his Liberator suffer any damage from the return fire."

After typing all that I find that the text of the book is also available here:
http://avia.russian.ee/gallery/234.html

[Rino]

Interesting read, thank you.

[Grendel]

There was quite plenti of bomber vs bomber combats in north of Spain and Atlantic. Fighters didnt have the range to fly there, except the Ju-88 fighter variants. Therefore, the bombers had quite a llot of slugging matches. Those went quite evently both ways.

In this case it was surely quite a surprise and annoyment to the Heinkel crews, while they had to concentrate on their bomb runs. Wonder which variant the Heinkels were... With their heavy cannon and MG armanent the Heinkels should have - IN THEORY - been able to inflict heavy damage on the B-24, but you know, theory doesn't often match reality and surprises happen. It would surely be interesting to know their flight profiles and exact details of that combat. Captivating.

[Laciner]

"Therefore, the bombers had quite a llot of slugging matches."

I was reminded of Flash Gordon (1980), with War Rocket Ajax fighting off the Hawkmen. Also, an anime series which had giant aerial battleships armed with musketeers. I think it may have been called "Last Exile". It was a wonderful set of still pictures, badly marred by a plot and acting etc.

"heavy damage"

The book suggests, but does not openly state, that they were He 177 A-5s, although looking at the production dates on the internet this may not be correct; I assume the book was published in the 1960s, when life was much more primitive than today. Apparently there were anti-tank versions of the He 177, armed with 50mm and 75mm guns, which would presumably have performed the same role as the B-25. The book leaves a very poor impression of the aircraft, and I have yet to see anyone leap to its defence.

[Grendel]

Oh, I could jump to the 177s defence

There's much better books these days. And much more information about the 177 operations. Mostly the hype around is the same old myths, happily recycled,  but with little actual knowledge of the plane's problems, variants, modifications and operations.

At best, with well trained crews and mechanics, the 177 was reliable plane, of course after the modifications arrived. The biggest problem, apart from the flammability of the early versions engines, was lack of crew trainign and manuals - pilots quite often just did not know the safe limits of the engines. And that lead to... problems and engines burning.

But at its best times the 177s flew many effective, large scale operations durings its career, especially on eastern front and in naval patrolling, until Third Reich's reserves dwindled so low that 177 regiments had to stand down.