They hate our freedom... really?

[PanzerIV]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Steve, I have a question for you.

Why do you think many people have a 'hate' on for the USofA?

They hate America because they hate Israel, and we are Israels powerful ally, if they can destroy us, then that gives them the idea they will be able to destroy Israel.

[moot]

Why not just let the arabs have their oil, develop a self-sufficient energy source (like fusion, Tokamak is slow as a snail, if not sitting still), and keep US armed forces where they're needed?
Enforce illegal labor laws and guard the border properly, follow the constitution (2nd amendment etc), flush out corrupt politicians of any party starting by the worse of them via voting, and only when an actual threat has developed beyond doubt, go out to stomp it.
If any open attacks happen against the US then, steamroll the offending party without restraint... etc.

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by babek-
Operation Ajax destroyed a dream of many young iranians.

In an unbloody revolution the high respected prime minister Mossadegh managed to force the dictator Shah Reza Pahlevi to italian exile.

Mossadegh himself could have put himself as a new Shah on the throne. He was a member of the Kadjar family which ruled Iran as Shahs until the 20ties.

But he wanted to build a democracy.

His fault was that his politic was not acceptable for the UK and US government. So a "counter-revolution" was made and the Shah was reinstalled...

But so we have to pay the price for a stupid decision made 50 years ago.

Lets put some history in CONTEXT.

In 1951 the cold war is raging, and socialist Mossadeq takes over as PM, and in a populist move backed by the Iranian communist party, nationalizes the oil assets.  Should Washington not have been worried that the "democracy" that Mossadeq was going to create wouldn't turn out like the "German Democratic Republic" aka East Germany?  Would an Communist Iranian version of the Staasi been any better than the Shah's goons?  

Given that after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war the arab states were pretty much all in the pro-Soviet bloc, should the US not have taken steps to curb increasing soviet influence in the middle east?

It is easy for us now to make judgements about the past - hindsight is always 20-20, but the leaders of the time didn't have the benefit of knowing what was going to happen.  Postwar US foreign policy throughout the world was overwhelmingly driven by the desire to contain Soviet expansionism, and yes, we backed some really rotten guys under the "enemy of my enemy" theory.

We can talk about US foreign policy mistakes forever - one of my favorites is failing to support the 1956 hungarian uprising, but what of it?  Should the Hungarians hate us now because we didn't support them then?  Would it be reasonable for the hungarian people to support terrorism against the US or NATO as "payback"?  

How many people have died in the last 55 years because we didn't stop Castro from turning Cuba into a gulag?  I wonder if people 50 years from now won't damn us for letting Hugo Chavez turn Venezuela into one.  

It's easy to damn a policy in hindsight.  It's a little more difficult to formulate a policy not knowing what the future holds.

EagleDNY
$.02

[Rino]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I do not consider our troops murderers.  Some members of our military have hurt our fight in Iraq with their actions is what I meant.

I should probably have worded it better.

I just love the court of public opinion..don't you?

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Bodhi
 Islam is a religion of peace.  

You are mistaken.  I have to believe you are pulling my leg.  there is no way you are this ignorant.. I just don't want to believe it.

[john9001]

EagleDNY, hey, stop making sense, you will just confuse people.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by AKIron
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Edmund Burke

Please explain what that quote has to do with what I said.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by EagleDNY
It's easy to damn a policy in hindsight.  It's a little more difficult to formulate a policy not knowing what the future holds.

Funny that it's so easy for us to damn a policy in hindsight.  Most of us here can look at what happened in Iran, Cambodia, Afghanistan and where/whenever and see that certainly policies where doomed.  We have a pretty good idea what blowback is and some things that cause it.

Yet there is the Whitehouse, making that same policy decisions as back then, that seem so obviously stupid now....in hindsight.


You are right though, it is damn easy to look at the violent over through of a foreign nations democratically elected government, the reinstitution of a dictator, and the training and support of his secret police, and call it morally bankrupt.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Redo or make a new foreign policy committee with some decent talent to help keep us from screwing up again. And the next time the CIA tries to change who's running a country, disband it, cut the funding, and fire every one of those sob's.

AMEN!

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
You are mistaken.  I have to believe you are pulling my leg.  there is no way you are this ignorant.. I just don't want to believe it.

So, would you prefer to call Christianity or Judaism a religion of peace?  Both have created much war and terrorism over history, as has Islam.  Islam does not preach war.  Nor does Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism for that matter.  But, you, who calls me ignorant, would have us believe that the Muslims of the world want nothing but war...

I think it is you that needs to look at the definition of ignorance.....

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by PanzerIV
They hate America because they hate Israel, and we are Israels powerful ally, if they can destroy us, then that gives them the idea they will be able to destroy Israel.

I didn't know so many non A-rab countries 'hated' Isreal?