Author Topic: Is the UAW run by dolts?  (Read 2398 times)

Offline mtndog

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Is the UAW run by dolts?
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2007, 10:20:54 AM »
Excuse me Lazs and others I mispoke about the current condition of calpers as well as a typo (should read 30 billion , lol just alittle difference).
The forbes article i was refferring to was several years old . i can not find it online. There are plenty of articles from several years ago quoting the health of Calpers....http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/5012/  .Just one from a not too distant past.

Unfunded pension liabilities for CalPERS and CalSTRS are $49 billion and a new accounting rule going into effect next year will result in an accounting for the first time of liabilities for retiree health benefits.  A February 2006 Legislative Analyst Office (LAO) report estimates that the state's unfunded liabilities for retiree health care benefits and their dependents is between $40 billion and $70 billion and recommends that, in addition to current expenditures now reaching $1 billion per year, up to $6 billion per year be set aside to retire that unfunded liability.  Also expected to be in the billions is the unfunded liability for retiree health benefits at local governments and school districts.


Do most of the links have an agenda?   probably...

A key seems to be the definitions of "funded" and "underfunded

sorry for going off topic


mtndog

Offline VonMessa

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Is the UAW run by dolts?
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2007, 10:49:38 AM »
quote:Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Let me guess, you never served did you?


Quote
Originally posted by Shamus
I figured that that would get some attention :)

Are you one of the "hooray for me I got mine, to hell with you" crowd?

The auto workers have the same expectations that the corporation is going to stand behind its promises to them, as you expect the government to stand by it's promises to you.

shamus



     I, personally think that someone who put their kiester in harms way (or took the oath to do so) for their country can't be remotely compared to a bunch of union workers as far as benefits are concerned.  Any why not the surviving family of fallen servicemen.  Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

     Not to attack anyone personally, but I've served, AND I was a union member at one point.  The unions do serve a purpose, but the "Not my job" philosophy is really hard to swallow sometimes.  I know it doesn't lend itself to  the whole team thing whether its a "union" or not.  Besides U.S. cars have been crappy for a long time now.  

     Maybe, nobody here remembers (I know I don't) when this country pulled together for a cause (WWII).  Folks didn't make/buy fancy brass items (needed it for shell casings), planted Victory gardens (less use of oil for deliveries of food), didn't buy a car for everyone in the house (besides that we all but stopped making them for a while), etc.  My 86 year old Grandfather lives with my wife and myself.  He served his time in the Navy on a tanker(read 24 hour moving target), the Uss Monongahela (10 battle stars, etc), and he can't believe the state of our country these days.  People go apes**t when their cell service conks out for 10 min.  God forbid they sacrifice any conveinences for the good of the nation.  Work ethic is in the crapper.  The government "owes" us?  Our employers "owe" us?  Maybe when we start to give up the "I can't see it from my house" attitude that most Americans have adopted, than we can have the privelege of being able to earn these benefits.

End of rant.
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Offline eddiek

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« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2007, 11:11:53 AM »
my bad then, hub.
I figured you were talking about a vehicle you got at a dealership.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2007, 11:16:53 AM »
If it wasn't your mistake, no worries. :)
mook
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2007, 02:57:02 PM »
mtn... most of calpers problems can be traced directly to the democrats that have their hands in it.   They are making bad investments for PC reasons.   even so... it is a very healthy system... for retirement...

The health care portion is not doing so well... not everyone who is in their retirement program is in their health care system too... in fact... most aren't.. or weren't last I checked.  

lazs

Offline BigGun

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« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2007, 04:15:02 PM »
What are the total assets of Calprs? Slightly north of $250 billion. Only being underfunded by $30 billion is not a problem at all. Being approximately 10% underfunded does not mean the plan is in trouble or unhealthy. If you know anything about pension funding, this is well within the normal funding corridor. Tomorrow the State could issue a pension bond and the plan could be 100% funded. That doesn't mean it is any better off than today.

Also, retiree health care is a SEPERATE issue from pension. New GASB rules do require government agencies to account for liabilities for retiree health care. Smart agencies will start to fund these liablities in a plan similar to the pension. In most situations in the state, retiree health care is NOT a vested benefit, and it has not been prefunded for that reason. This means the program can be ended tomorrow for future retirees. In fact, Sacramento county board of sups did just that a few months ago. The large liabilities being tossed around in the media are very misleading and have faulty assumptions. They often include liabilites for current employees that haven't retired, and also make projections for future hires (people that haven't even began working). Some assumptions by the actuaries make a huge difference in the outcome. I have seen two studies for the same county, each by seperate actuaries. The major difference between the two was the projected growth rate for healthcare (something that is no more than a wild guess). One projected the liab at $2.6 billion, and the other was $1.4 billion. A big Difference. Look at your own difference, $40 to $70 quoted. The media loves to sensationalize the "B" word (billion). A billion contribution is less than 1% of the States budget which is fairly insignificant. One other note, approximately 70% of the benefits paid out have come from investment earnings of money being set aside. The remainder is from contributions (usually half from the employee and half from the employer).

Laz is right about the "Social" or "double bottom line" investing. I know we avoid it like the plague. Partly why we have better returns than Calprs. Major reason also is it is a lot easier to invest $5 billion than $250 billion.

Offline EagleDNY

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« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2007, 05:50:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
No eddie, I was working at the assembly plant. This vehicle (and quite a few others which weren't road worthy, or even suitable to send to a dealership to be repaired before they had even been driven ) came directly off the line. It was an assembly screw up. They have lots.


Well then your original post was misleading - you came off like you had just bought a new GM truck and had it pack up on the highway on the way home.  You kind of skipped over the part where you were driving the factory rejects.

My History with GM:
First car I ever wanted: Mom's 1968 Impala Convertible (8-Track and all)...
First GM I got to drive: Mom's 1975 Monte Carlo (nice, we drove it till the wheels fell off)
First GM I hated:  A used 1980 Buick Skylark (complete piece of junk - I was happy sending it to the junkyard.  The car stranded me more times than my 1972 MG midget, and the electrical system was less reliable than Lucas which I had thought impossible until that time)

-- 15 year gap where I wouldn't touch a GM with a 10 foot pole after the Buick...

1991 Saturn SL2 - bought it in 2001 from my brother in law after my honda got wrecked.  Was a great little car, nearly drove it to death but got rear-ended by a trash truck in 2006 and it got totaled by the Ins. Co.

2006 Saturn Vue - liked my Saturn enough to go buy a new one...  so far so good.  50K miles in 2 years, and it has been flawless.  Maybe GM can make nice cars after all...

EagleDNY
$.02

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2007, 06:33:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY
Well then your original post was misleading - you came off like you had just bought a new GM truck and had it pack up on the highway on the way home.  You kind of skipped over the part where you were driving the factory rejects.
 


I didn't say driving factory rejects- you did.

Brand new trucks, being sent out the door to carhaulers and then to dealerships, or directly to customers. Brand new trucks which are supposed to start, drive, run, stop, and be fully functional and not require repair.

Brand new trucks which have to be inspected by the dealerships, because it assumed by all parties that the vehicles will be substandard.

That's arguably why the Japanese are building trucks in America now. The bar is incredibly low, and they've done well in the past whenever we've lowered the bar. Also, it helps explain why American built cars have a bad rep, and why the automakers aren't doing so well lately.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 06:37:46 PM by hubsonfire »
mook
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Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2007, 03:59:39 AM »
Strike is over..!

:aok
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline eddiek

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« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2007, 05:17:51 AM »
Hubs, the Japanese were building trucks in the US back when I was working at the dealership I described.......and did I mention it was a Nissan dealership?  
Almost all, if not all, auto manufacturers have checklists for their new vehicles, to be performed at the dealerships.  Not just US manufacturers.
As to the country of origin, back then the VIN told you where the vehicle was made.
Guess which country of origin gave us the most defects?  If you guessed the US, you were wrong.
Some Nissan trucks and some Sentras were being built in Tennessee, not just Japan.  All Maximas and IIRC Pathfinders were assembled in Japan.  I can't recall if the Altimas were being built in Japan solely, but IIRC they were since they were an entirely new model in 1992-93, when I worked at the dealership.
Let's see..........
1993 Altima, would not shift out of 1st gear (auto trans), built in Japan; after replacing the transaxle, computer, etc. 4 times, the factory rep gave up and had us put the car back on a transporter to send to wherever factory lemons go.  The car never made it to the line or showroom.
1992 Nissan extended cab pickup, 5 speed transmission......never made it to the showroom or new car line, cause the shifter would jump out of place, and I mean to where it could not be placed into any gear.  Factory told us to R&R the transmission and put it on the line.......fine, but after 3 transmissions did the same thing, it was sent back to lemon purgaory also.
1993 Maxima, again, transmission problem...manual transmission would lock in 1st gear....disassembly revealed nothing that to the naked eye would cause it to do that, so a factory new transaxle was installed with the same results.  Again, after two more transaxle R&R's, it was transported away.
Or there was the ice storm in the winter of '92-93 where a lot of the Sentras wouldn't start in the cold weather..the Japanese made ones anyway.  The shop was full of Sentras backed and pulled into stalls, their fuel pumps being replaced.  The American made ones performed flawlessly.

Am I being selective?  Perhaps, but mainly I am pointing out that all manufacturers produce lemons from time to time.  People want to bad mouth US car makers as the only ones whose quality has deteriorated, but that is a myth.  All of them make plenty good ones, and a few lemons, but people only wanna talk about the bad things that have happened.
I'm not picking on or at you, just venting a bit on the subject you brought up.........

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2007, 10:30:54 AM »
Ya know, it's probably one of those things where you have to work on the inside to see how bad it really is. I have no experience with the Japanese trucks, but you're probably right- everybody screws up at some point. The thing that got me about the GM trucks, were that so many required work coming off the line. I hope that's not an issue common for all makes, but it could be.
mook
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2007, 10:46:47 AM »
And, of course, the workers are solely responsible for the product coming off the end of the line. That is blatantly obvious.

After all, it's SO easy for a worker to shut down the line when something is going wrong.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2007, 10:55:58 AM »
Now that the strike is over with GM getting everything it wanted, I am looking forward to the quick recapture of market share and the inevitable increase in jobs in the U.S. by the corporation.

shamus
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2007, 02:55:12 PM »
You think GM got everything it wanted?

health care in America is easy to fix... we simply have to go back to 1950's levels of service and testing and equipment and malpractice insurance and settlements.

the problem is.. everyone seems to feel that they are entitled to live forever.  They also feel that if a doctor makes a mistake... it is the same as if they won the lottery.

Say they came out with a drug that could make anyone live one more year but it costs $5,000,000

Who should get it?  who should pay for it?

lazs

Offline mtndog

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« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2007, 04:27:17 PM »
Caught Jim Cramer on hardball last night channel surfing. matthws asked him what he thought of the car maker ,
 cramers answer....they're not car makers, they're in the health care business.....He also added that GM is the largest buyer of viagra in the world. lol ... god bless those retirees

mtndog