Spit 8 Tactics for Spit 16's

[oACE10o]

Well i can tell you what i have done before. I was in a P-47 with a spit 16 on my 6 at 400, so a rolled the plane to the right and pushed down on the joystick so that i would turn left waiting for the spitty to try turn with me, i then quickly pulled up to pull a hard right and the spit fire quickly rolled left and plled so hard he broke one of his wings. I got the proxy and he wasnt very happy with me afterward. i know its probably hard to understand what i have just said aswell lol

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by waystin2
Well I took a look at my kills of/killed by yesterday and lo and behold the Spit 16 has killed me the most, making up over 10% of my deaths.  I am currently flying the Spit Mark 8 99% of the time. I took a look at the fighter comparison site, and the planes are basically evenly matched in turn, speed & acceleration with a slight favor going to the 16 in all three categories.  What the heck should I do when you got one of these on your 6 at 200 to 400?  I have tried turning to the point of stall, barrel rolling over the top and bottom, rolling scissors, not to mention good old unpredictable violent maneuvering.  I have shook maybe one or two at best.   Any ideas are appreciated!

turn off stall limiter and push it to the limit!:aok

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by humble
If a good spitVIII driver meets a good XVI driver the VIII dies...

The VIII is much more docile and "easier" to fly...but the 16 actually is slightly better in all things spitish..the 16 actually can out turn, out roll, out climb and out accelerate the 8...admittedly all my a slender margin. It's just a bit harder to put and keep on the edge....

The roll rate difference particularily at dive speeds is significant, not marginal.

[humble]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
The roll rate difference particularily at dive speeds is significant, not marginal.

No question the faster the speed the greater the differential...

At "dogfighting" speeds its not that extreme. But the 16 outclimbs and out accelerates the 8 and is actually roughly even in turnrate (but definately less stable). In a "flat" fight the avergae 8 driver will easily eat up the average 16 driver since the 16 is tough to keep in the sweet spot.

with better pilots in a more 3D fight the 16's advantages are very noticable...

[waystin2]

Originally posted by SkyRock
turn off stall limiter and push it to the limit!:aok

It's been done my man!  You missed my post a few weeks ago, and due to popular demand turned it off, and yes you are right it has made a heck of a difference.  I am still fleshing out where the edge is on the Mark 8.

[Latrobe]

Originally posted by SkyRock
turn off stall limiter and push it to the limit!:aok

hehe Apparently you haven't seen me in the TA.

[waystin2]

Thanks you all for info and observations.  Here's my followup...I figured why not take the Mark 16 up last night and I now understand why people whine and complain about this plane.  It has all the turn characteristics of a great plane (Mark 8), plus extra speed, plus faster climb, little more firepower, and the one factor that really makes it great is the extra roll rate ability (like the 190's).  That roll rate makes all the difference in the world when you are BnZ'ing some poor soul.  The 8 would get real mushy over 350+ in a dive, but the 16 allows you to roll and adjust while diving.  It is just a harder plane to shake off you from any angle.  Looks like next tour I will be working on this sweet new ride!  See you up there!

[Latrobe]

16 is a great plane with high speeds. Very rarely have I ripped the wings off of it, and it's almost stall proof. If you're in a dive and reach the maximum speed the plane will start leveling off by itself.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by humble
No question the faster the speed the greater the differential...

At "dogfighting" speeds its not that extreme. But the 16 outclimbs and out accelerates the 8 and is actually roughly even in turnrate (but definately less stable). In a "flat" fight the avergae 8 driver will easily eat up the average 16 driver since the 16 is tough to keep in the sweet spot.

with better pilots in a more 3D fight the 16's advantages are very noticable...

Actually, climb rate and acceleration are virtually identical (acceleration measured from 150 mph to 250 mph). On the deck, the Spit16 has about a 4 mph edge, but drops to 2 mph as you go up. Moreover, this testing was done with the Spit8 carrying more gas as its capacity at 25% is greater. Max speed, max climb and best acceleration are so close that they should not be considered different in a real sense. Especially as you can be sure that fuel and ammo states will vary widely in the MA.

Roll rate clearly goes to the Spit16, however, using rudder to assist rolling can get the Spit8 rolling pretty darn fast.

Head to head, equal weight, Co-E, Co-alt with equal pilots; the edge goes to the Spit8 due to its superior stability at high AoA and a slightly smaller turn radius. You simply cannot push the Spit16 as hard as the Spit8 without getting into stall trouble.

My regards,

Widewing

[humble]

As I stated above I fly the 8 a bit better then the 16. To me the 16 is better in the verticals, picks up E faster, climbs and accelerates faster (again all by a small margin)...until you lose the edge. No question that the 16 is harder to put on the edge and keep there then the 8...

Leaving the true bleeding edge stall fight (which a good 16 driver shouldnt get to with an 8) out...which to you think is "better" in the midrange (175-275) semiangles/semi E fight?

I've always found that the 16 driver who keeps the fight in the semi verticals and a bit "fast" can secure the upper hand on the 8 pretty quickly. To me they are "equal" birds with very different strengths. If the 16 driver flies a good E fight he can dicatate the course of action to the 8 a bit more then the 8 can control the 16...

[evenhaim]

Originally posted by Bronk
Get that Mk XIV up to 22k-25k and see if it doesn't jump to the top of that list. You just never see them much at there designed alts.

Bronk

exactly, lol latrobe

[trotter]

Two things

With spit 16s, it usually comes down to pilot skill. If you run into someone who can fly them well, you may be in trouble. But the majority of people who are up flying those 16s are newer to the game.

The 16 holds E better than most people who fly it realize. Therefore, in an 8, you can use that to force an overshoot, or, more subtly, use the initial E retention of the 16 to gain angles in a turn.

[humble]

Originally posted by trotter
Two things

With spit 16s, it usually comes down to pilot skill. If you run into someone who can fly them well, you may be in trouble. But the majority of people who are up flying those 16s are newer to the game.

The 16 holds E better than most people who fly it realize. Therefore, in an 8, you can use that to force an overshoot, or, more subtly, use the initial E retention of the 16 to gain angles in a turn.

If the 16`gets`drawn into the 8's fight sure. But if the 16 E fights the 8 all the little things add up. The 16's roll rate and smaller wing play to its advantage in a climbing reversing fight...the same way the 8's bigger wing area help it in AoA and sustained turns. No question pilot skill is going to be the biggest factor...I just dont think the 8 can dictate the fight from an even start...

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by humble
I just dont think the 8 can dictate the fight from an even start...

Exactly.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Exactly.

True..

What dictates the start of a fight is the tactical situation. What dictates the outcome is pilot skill.

My regards,

Widewing