Author Topic: best e fighter? (Read 1893 times)

GHO5T · « **on:** October 04, 2007, 02:28:49 PM »

am i right in thinking that the best E fighter is the p-51?

if not what is the best plane to use for E - Fighting?

Viking · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2007, 02:44:07 PM »

High-alt: P-38/47

Med-alt: 109G/K and 190D

Low-alt: La-5/7

The P-51 is OK at everything (its true strength), but not really good at anything.

WMLute · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2007, 02:57:01 PM »

I would add the Yak in med. alt. It dominates 16-17k.

I'm not a big fan of p51's in general, so I will refrain from posting about 'em.

(1 trick pony comes to mind)

Karnak · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:08:29 PM »

F4U-4.

Bf109K-4, Fw190D-9, Spitfire Mk XIV and P-51D are good too.

Saxman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2007, 03:44:18 PM »

F4Us in general are excellent E-fighters, so long as you're careful with mainaining your e-state.

Wolfala · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2007, 09:54:45 PM »

A-20...Inertia baby

Viking · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2007, 02:58:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
F4Us in general are excellent E-fighters, so long as you're careful with mainaining your e-state.

That's what makes it a poor energy fighter. What makes or breaks an E-fighter is its ability to build an E advantage over its opponents and quickly rebuild spent E when needed. The F4U (with the exception of the -4) are slow-accelerating and climbs poorly. The F4U otoh is a pretty good turn-fighter due to its fantastic flaps.

Ghosth · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2007, 05:41:51 AM »

Even a Seafire is a good energy fighter down low.

I had an La7, a P47 and a spit trying to chase me home from a furball.
Dove for the deck and the spit gave it up and peeled off.

Once the spits out of icon range I reversed back into the other 2 guys. I got a hit on the la's engine leaving him smoking. Merged twice and again, picked my point to exit, dove for the deck and ran. La decided to go home, that left the jug.

Once more the jug slowly caught me, once more at 2k I reversed high, merged with him twice, and then dove out and ran. Left him in the dust 3.5k back and no longer a threat. If I'd had ammo I'd of stayed and killed him. But I was empty and down to minutes of fuel.

I agree that the Yak is VERY good from say 5 - 15k, in decent hands its a constant threat.

Yes the P51 can be flown as an energy fighter, but its poor acceleration leaves it gasping for E after much of a maneuver. Its actually a "downhill" fighter, starts up high, and with careful use of altitude can do very very well.
Once low it needs to exit out clear of the fight and either land or regrab alt.

Saxman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:29:12 AM »

Viking,

The F4Us all hold on to energy well--among the best of any aircraft, and it's this retention that make them effective in an energy fight. The zoom is superior to almost anything in the air, (and zoom is more important than straight climb in a fight, I can't tell you how many La-7's I've run down in the vertical, or Spixteens I've left choking on dust) and while level acceleration may not be great in the 1-series, all the Hogs build up speed VERY quickly going downhill.

Viking · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2007, 08:04:00 AM »

While B&Z is a form of E-fighting any aircraft limited to only B&Z cannot imho be called a good E-fighter. That you have killed Spit16's and La-7's in an F4U does credit to your skills, not your plane. Again imho. This thread is named "best e fighter?", imho that only includes the (un-perked) fighters I listed in my original post.

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2007, 03:29:22 PM »

The Tempest rules them all down low.

Bronk · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2007, 03:31:03 PM »

E-fighter you say?

Mk XIV

Bronk

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2007, 03:38:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
While B&Z is a form of E-fighting any aircraft limited to only B&Z cannot imho be called a good E-fighter.

That's why I don't consider the P-51 an "E-fighter". It's good at Boom and Zoom style attacks but as a pure E fighter, it's not one of them.

ack-ack

Tilt · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:08:57 PM »

Given that a good e fighter is defined as the one that after an identical set of manouvers has retained or gained the greater E.

problem with this definition is we see (from badz's curves) that this is highly dependant upon what these manouvres actually were. How close to optimum corner speed etc.

So to simplify it to me its the fastest sustained turner when viewed from the point of view of both linear and radial air speed in turn.

The spit wing should by the above definition make it the perfect e fighter, it holds e through manouvres beautifully.

However some ac are able to drain their oppenents E by forcing angles where the opponent does not pull the same manouvre but instead is forced into some e sapping evasive............. these ac often exhibit poor aerodynamic e retention but high surplus power (F4u4) such that they can scrub e to carry out a manouvre confident that they can regain the "e edge" after forcing a reaction from their opponent and gaining angle.

or indeed use their mass to extend in zoom and so generate better angle from a loop/immelman etc.

I suppose some would say this is not e fighting but IMO using zoom as a method of e conversion that your opponent cannot copy is indeed e fighting...........even if the out come is a better angle.

So for me the better pure e fighters are the Spitfires, with a caveat that permits others to still take an e fight to the Spitfire when allowed to do so in a manner that the Spitfire cannot copy.

Urchin · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2007, 07:53:31 AM »

I'd go with 109K, or Spit 8+ / Ki84.