Author Topic: Idiot pilots (Read 995 times)

cav58d · « **on:** October 05, 2007, 08:03:00 AM »

I HATE most pilots my age and younger...What is the freaking deal with them...Nearly everyone I meet has an enormous bulge over getting to a regional airline as soon as they meet the airlines mininums, not their own, and getting that seniorioty #. How can anyone be that excited about 50k in debt from some pilot mill, which will double by the time they can pay it off on 20k-30K first officer pay without an upgrade in site because they got hired with only 250 hours PIC and cant get their ATP.

Furthermore, if I hear one more kid tell me that 1,000 hours PIC in a single engine airplane is worthless, I'm going to take a 2 x 4 and hit him straight across the face....

anyone else in aviation experience idiots like this or is it just the north east.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:19:05 AM »

We are hiring

If you want to add the word "ice" to your vocabulary, now's the time.

Dnil · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:39:33 AM »

thats all I deal with every day. Regionals are hiring like crazy and within a year or 2 the pay does become livable. Personally its not high on my list of flying jobs but its a decent one that is picking up low time pilots. Their other option is CFI for crap pay.

I know a bunch of schools are going strictly to multi for most of the training, no more single engine commercial.

eagl · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:02:12 PM »

Every experienced airline pilot I've ever talked to has told me that line number and seniority is EVERYTHING.

Vulcan · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:17:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
We are hiring If you want to add the word "ice" to your vocabulary, now's the time.

Drug smuggling frenchy?

cav58d · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:20:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eagl
Every experienced airline pilot I've ever talked to has told me that line number and seniority is EVERYTHING.

Have these conversations been in the context of wet AMEL pilots going to fly regional jets? Sure, seniorioty is very important...It's going to control your schedule, your pay, and if you happen to be below the right # during a furlough, it will keep your job...But at what cost???

I'm sorry, but some idiot who pays 80k to go to a pilot factory, and ends up right seat in an RJ 6 months from the start of his training just isn't right...Mostly though, its the fault of the industry for not having higher standards...But hey...Why raise standards? It's easy to pay an 18 year old kid with 250 hours 20 grand to fly a big shiney airplane! Raise the mininums, and you may actually have individuals who say no to that.

cav58d · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:28:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dnil
I know a bunch of schools are going strictly to multi for most of the training, no more single engine commercial.

These schools are doing that so they can charge more...You pay an insane amount of money to go to one of these schools and in return you get say 180 hours multi engine...Thing is, you are always flying with another student. One of you flying under the hood and the other as safety pilot so both can log PIC...So now XYZ school can make double on a single flight.....AND they want you to believe multi time is everything, and single engine time isn't worth a damn...

well thats just wrong...I know more pilots who have landed their multi engine jobs, myself included, because of their single engine time...I had a mere 14 hours multi last year...That sure didn't get me a paycheck.

Dnil · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:32:57 PM »

be mad at the regionals not the guys taking a paying job. You know full well how crappy it is in the beginning. Its one of the few professions you pay that much in training and make dirt for the first couple years. CFI is disgusting pay. A 250 hour pilot would be stupid not to take the job cause in year 2 its 35k and by year 3 he is upgrading to captain and topping out at 85k all by the age of 27. If he has a 4 year degree he then moves on to a major.

I am sure most would love to go corporate but 3k minimuns are not going to attract those guys. Its the regionals fault in this not the pilots trying to make a living.

cav58d · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2007, 01:29:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dnil
be mad at the regionals not the guys taking a paying job. You know full well how crappy it is in the beginning. Its one of the few professions you pay that much in training and make dirt for the first couple years. CFI is disgusting pay. A 250 hour pilot would be stupid not to take the job cause in year 2 its 35k and by year 3 he is upgrading to captain and topping out at 85k all by the age of 27. If he has a 4 year degree he then moves on to a major.

I am sure most would love to go corporate but 3k minimuns are not going to attract those guys. Its the regionals fault in this not the pilots trying to make a living.

WHAT! With all due respect, you are dead wrong. If you were to be making 85k by 27 years old at the regionals, you would have to had started employment with them at around the age of 12.

And I 100% disagree about not being mad at the guys taking the job. Its a collective problem between them and the airlines...Doesn't matter if it's a paying job. Do you know what a scab is? Do you think its okay when scabs do struck work, just because its a paying job?

The fact is, willingly taking such a terrible salary is undercutting the entire industry. You have 2 or 3 airlines who can pay 20k a year and the rest of the industry then follows ...

Maybe if the young kids didn't have a hard on and big shiney jets in their eyes, then they would actually offense to this sub par wages, and demand an increase; one way, by not taking the job...

As much as it is a good contract and union representation (hopefully you're at a union airline), it also comes down to the pilot group as a whole saying no to disgusting pay...

Theres enough people at mid levels in the regionals who are completely fed up with this crap, and I think you are going to see a sort of revolution in the industry over the next couple years...Unfortunately theres not enough young guys just starting their career who can get past the shiney jets in their eyes to take pride in their profession.

cpxxx · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2007, 03:38:12 PM »

Over here in Europe it's the same but different. The same result though. But here we get kids with 250 hours flying right seat in jets. Basically the system favours those people who can raise 100,000 Euro and go to a flight school and get a JAA licence. The evidence is that the airlines favour those guys over pilots with more time but who got their rating the traditional way.

To make it worse, airlines are now charging newbies 25,000 Euro for their type rating. Ryanair being the worst offender in that regard. They even charge £50 sterling to apply for a job. On top of that the new pilot is paid a reduced salary for six months.

Aer Arann, the Irish regional, pay quite well compared to American standards but they also charge 25,000 Euro for a type rating. They do pay it back eventually. But, rather cynically they know most pilots will have moved on to jets by then.

The result is a lot of low time co-pilots on European airlines. Experience counts for nothing anymore.

The whole situation has resulted in a downward decline in pilot pay.

cav58d · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2007, 03:51:00 PM »

Unfortunately, what most would argue to be the best contract in the US; Southwest Airlines requires their pilots to be responsible for their B737 type; whether it be actually paying for it, or going to another airline, getting typed in training, and then quitting as soon as the training contract is up...

It just sucks what is happening to the industry though and its not just the regionals...Even majors like Jetblue, Virgin America and the worst offender; Skybus, are paying their pilots well under industry standards to fly around a 120+ seat jet.

I think now that the majors are flat out requiring a four year degree, or at least saying that you need one to be competitive is a good step...But there will always be a massive pool for the majors...I wish regional carriers would require this, but I doubt you will ever see that day...Requiring a degree would mean upping pay, and management doesn't want that to happen.

The best thing pilots can do is make sure there feelings and opinions are heard...Avoid the crap pay and crap contracts...You have to cause a hell storm if you want things changed, and even if management wont listen...well theres other ways......................... .................Ever taxi behind an AA? You would think they have their parking break on hehe

Dago · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2007, 04:13:21 PM »

I don't know why you or anyone would get mad at whatever route someone takes, or the goal he wants to achieve in his career. Do what is right for you, and if it doesn't effect you directly and personally, don't sweat what someone else does.

I find more frustrating a pilot who still has fresh ink on his ticket acting like the industry expert on everything aviation, and most of his "knowledge" is based on what he overhears in a pilot lounge.

Dnil · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2007, 06:20:03 PM »

you obviously havent looked at the regionals close enough then. My buddy is a captain on RJ's and has been for 2 years, he just turned 30. I am sorry you have such an issue with fellow pilots.

cav58d · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2007, 06:28:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
I don't know why you or anyone would get mad at whatever route someone takes, or the goal he wants to achieve in his career. Do what is right for you, and if it doesn't effect you directly and personally, don't sweat what someone else does.

I find more frustrating a pilot who still has fresh ink on his ticket acting like the industry expert on everything aviation, and most of his "knowledge" is based on what he overhears in a pilot lounge.

I don't know of any ink that hasn't dried after a couple years...That said, my experience in aviation is only 8 years; not a lifetime, but enough to know a thing or two...And you are absolutely wrong in saying that the actions of a pilot or an entire pilot group in regards to contracts and pay does not effect the rest of the industry...It does, and I dont feel like sitting around and dealing with the status quo that management wants to write when it deals with my earnings, potential earnings, or missed earnings over the next 40 years...Change will never happen when people sit on their hands.

cav58d · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2007, 06:32:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dnil
you obviously havent looked at the regionals close enough then. My buddy is a captain on RJ's and has been for 2 years, he just turned 30. I am sorry you have such an issue with fellow pilots.

If your friend is telling you he is making 80k in his second year, then he is BSing you. anyways for laughs, what airline is he at.