An open letter to all noobs

[Urchin]

Actually, that may very well be the main difference in viewpoints right there.  

I know I fall into the "sport" type category, where the ultimate goal is a challenging fight.  I have mellowed out a bit though, since I've come back I haven't tuned to 200, nor am I planning to.  I just don't care nowadays, I'll be able to have fun somewhere, and getting irritated at people who I look at as playing timid just wastes my time and raises my blood pressure.

[Murdr]

It does not take much training, knowledge or effort to win from the advantaged position.  Given equal footing, the fight usually goes to the pilot who is better at applying air combat tactics.  From the disadvantaged position, one needs superior knowledge of the arts of air combat over thier opponent(s) to stand a good chance of comming out on top.

In the contexts that this thread was addressed to new players, and posted in the H&T forum, BaldEagl offered, in general, good advise on a style of gameplay that would help one become well versed in all three of the above scenarios.  He also suggested seeking training, and left a disclaimer that one can take or leave his advise.

Here is a quote.  While it is not 100% applicable to this thread, it might help frame the context regarding some disagreement in this thread:[/b]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
This forum is open to anyone who is willing to help people with the game.  It is the primary forum for the Trainers to help people as well.

In this thread there are two distinct roles being discussed which is causing a clash.  The role of the trainer is to provide aid and assistance to the player who wishes to improve thier flight skills.

Then there is the role of gameplay.  Gameplay is chosen by the player and not taught by the trainer.  Trainers cannot alter human behavior.  They only impart information to those who are looking to improve the quality of thier gameplay.

You cannot mix these two fundamentally different ideas in a conversation without stepping on toes.  Anyone attempting to coerce other players into thier style of gameplay is wrong to do so.  It is one thing to offer up the different styles, but it is an entirely different matter when one attempts to force other players to play 'thier' game.

Telling another player they are wrong in the way they wish to play the game is akin to telling someone they should not like Apple pie as Cherry is much better.  You are wasting your time and just creating friction in doing this.

Originally posted by Boxcut
Why are the people who put themselves in a winning/advantage situation ridiculed?

AH is a combat simulator.  Those who choose to allow their skillset to limit them to habitually be more interested in a free kill than risking actual combat, are by nature subject to ridicule.  

On the other hand, those who have solid abilities, fly smart, and do not display hubris for winning when they should win, are generally NOT subject to ridicule.[/b]

[Scca]

Originally posted by Murdr
SNIP

Those who choose to allow their skillset to limit them to habitually be more interested in a free kill than risking actual combat, are by nature subject to ridicule.

SNIP

Hooray Murdr!  Give that man a prize!!!

Here is my take on this.

There is a difference between a player and a gamer..  A gamer plays for score, a player plays for the game, and score comes from better play.
OR
A gamer works the system for a better score, a player works to better their play for a better score..

YMMV

[humble]

I think one additional factor here is if a guy is "mission capable". It's fine to "fly smart" etc...however regardless of your view as a "sim" or a "RPG" in order to fully function you need to have the ability to undertake a variety of roles....or simpy concede your not really "game capable"....

Certain aspects of the game demand certain skills sets. If you cant "furball" you really cant defend well. At the same time if your in a contested fight for a base you cant just pick either (if your intent on capture). At some point you need to get down and dirty to accomplish the task at hand.

Accordingly I'll break the "smart" group into a few catagories.

1) the pickers...

They say the right things but in the end all they do is use there own side for bait and/or cover...

2) the borg collective...

They talk the talk and walk the walk...as long as they walk in a big group. Always a line of smack about "why are you running...?" safely uttered from a cloud of friendlies...

3) the "mizzune" guy...

He's smart and picks and runs, but when it counts he'll lay it on the line for the task at hand. He's frustrating to fly against since he'll lead you away from the goon or HO if he thinks he has to....but when its on him he's suprisingly aggresive and skilled. He just isnt a solo kind of flyer

4) The hunter

He flys high, he flys alone and he flies to kill.

5) The 2 headed quisenart

The skilled winged pair. They look for a big red bar and look to dice and slice. They dont care about you, they dont care about either sides goals. They care about each other and the sport. They want to live but will gladly die for good sport (or each other). They come home loaded with pelts or they dont TRB....


#3 and #5 have my respect and make the game fun. 4 bores me to death and 1 & 2 (the vast majority) are just targets....

There are alot of guys who tend to fly "smart" but you'll see them upping from capped fields as well. To me thats the litmus test, anyone can fly with the big green machine. It's the guys you see who land 6 on offense but then immediatly roll a bird from a contested field to help defend that you respect. We all can "fly smart"...we just dont confuse it with being "good"...

[BaldEagl]

Wow.  I actually didn't think this post would cause any type of debate considering the fact that I wasn't advocating any particular type or style of play.  I was only advocating that, as long as you were here, that you learn to fly and fight and I must admit, I'm somewhat bewidered by all the "anti-learning to fight" sentiment in this thread.

Flying smart?  I like to think I fly smart.  I try to land at least 50% of all my flights each camp.  But what's flying smart for someone who's learned to fly and fight is a much broader range of engagements than for one who hasn't.  For me flying smart includes me on one, two or three depending on plane match-ups because I know I have at least a 50% chance of prevailing.  Possibly even greater odds if I have an initial positional advantage.

Sure I still cherry-pick.  Why not?  If your going to give me a freebie kill I'll take it.  Sure I still HO on occasion.  Again, if your going to point your Spit at my FW190A-8 I'll disintigrate it for you.  Then again, if you want to turn fight in that Spit against my 190 I'll oblige you and 50% of the time I'll send you to the tower wondering how you lost against that POS that can't turn.  Why?  Because I've learned how to fight and I've taken the time to fly everything. Because of that I'm willing to fight in anything against anything and I know my odds of winning are good (smart flying).

Running?  Sure if I'm low fuel, low ammo, missing parts or the hoard is too large but I'll never run from a one on one.

Ack-hugging?  Very rarely and only if I am at a very significant disadvantage.

Playing for points/score?  I do that too.  I'm currently ranked 25th overall but my fighter ranks a little lower than I'd like even though my K/D is almost 3:1.

Again, I'm not and wasn't advocating any particular style of play.  All I'm saying is if you don't ever bother learning to fly and fight you're missing out on one of the most rewarding aspects of the game and one that will likely leave you in the under 0.5 K/S and under 1 K/D crowd forever if you don't learn it.  If that's all you ever want to be then that's fine too.  As I said above, it's your $15.00.

[gpwurzel]

This has been an interesting thread to read - neither view is incorrect, its all about individual choices. From my perspective, I dont fly smart, I have always flown into as big a fight as I can find. I will ho if someone fires first (and sometimes if they dont, depends on numbers against), if I can get a free kill I will and will always be one of the people who eventually gets low and slow in the weeds......

I've not been here that long, comparatively speaking (few months)...but, and its quite a big but.....every single time I up a plane, I'm learning....I'm not as easy to kill as when I started, I even manage to work people into a position I can kill them from occassionally.

Do I enjoy dying in game - not really bothered (happens way to much to be that worked up about)
Do I enjoy interacting with people from all over the world (even if it means I get to virtually kill them) - OH YES

Basically, I play the way I want to play....do I want to get better...yep....much better, will it take time, yep.......but thats a good thing.

Good post Baldeagl, very interesting

[pervert]

Some people act like if they die on aces high they die in real life thats a bit sad/weird. Had an encounter with 'top 500' pilot last night and it was cringeworthy to say the least was chasing a p51 and a f4u 'the ace' flops in with huge alt advantage and fouls things up againest me then uses his speed advantage to run 2.5k out from me makes no attempt to climb or turn, while this is going on the p51 i'm chasing is now on my tail I turn to fight him......he runs. I turn back to the f4u who is now joined by a spit he fouls up again and ends up in my sights and spit ends up getting me. Dont know how this guys getting his rank its certainley not from fighting haha. Was honestly THE most cringeworthy 10mins of aces high I had ever seen. And it seems this tour the ammount of people becoming obssessed with their score  and 'not dying' at all costs is on the rise.

[firey]

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. I have only played for one month and everyone's opinon's and thought's were read and considered. I, myself, try to find as many different opinons and/or ideas and then choose and combine the ones that work the best for me. I must say that no one persons ideas here were my perfect match, only the individual writing that particular idea is the perfect fit for it. But all the thoughts and ideas had something of value for me and I will use each accordingly. So thank you all for sharing, as I will use pieces of all of your threads as I progress though my AH career.


Firey

[goober69]

i like most of the posts in this thread and bald eagle makes a good point.

personaly i vary in my play style. i never up from a caped base but will up from one close and come in high. (not that confident yet)
if i rtb wit three or four kills and im not damaged ill reamrm and up again.
usualy do this till i die.
 managed to have 15 one night and got vulched on the rearm pad when i went to get a beer lol no big deal.
besides anyone who wants to kill me usualy does.

lately im flying more in attack mode cause i like killing ground targets and actualy i feel like i might be "helping" some.

most nights i want good team play. if everyones just furballing in my area ill go to another arena, (or team) or try to get a base capture on.
furballing was fun for me a year ago when i was on my two weeks.
now its just boring and frustrating to spend hours over a base with no result.

[Rich46yo]

I fly bombers so I gain at least 10,000' before I move in on a target. I see what happens to bombers coming in at 3,000', its not even amusing. Tho there are probably some who will say they can man all those guns, against all those fighters, make their drop and escape while at 3,000'.  I see bombers slaughtered all the time coming in that low over an airbase.

                        One Baron Von Brownpants I put on ignore tried to ridicule me cause i have a lot of air time compared to shooting time. One thing there is no stat for is the amount of times bombers damage fighters. It happens all the time and they break off and land at close by airbases "all the time". Last night it happened to me 3 times. And its not like I can break off and chase them down either. But the way I see it if I can keep them away from my bombers then I won.

                      Most of the time the only ones who'll stay until the end are the heavy Jabos, and Im assuming cause they dont have kills to land. The 110's, Hurricanes, Mossies....ect But everyone else??? Its "run,run,run". I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 fighters. And for the score H'os, or anyone else who would look up someones stats for ridicule, never see those engagements. The truth is if theres two flashpoints on the map then Im flying towards one of them. And "sorry" to any ace if I chose to control some of it by getting at least 10,000' under me.

                   But I wont ridicule them for it. During a real war a damaged fighter would break off too. Especially if he had just re'armed 6 times and had 5 kills to score ,"his name in the marquee",after spinning around chasing his tail  in a furball for 1/2 hour.

                 Its all good baby, its all good.

[goober69]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
I fly bombers so I gain at least 10,000' before I move in on a target. I see what happens to bombers coming in at 3,000', its not even amusing. Tho there are probably some who will say they can man all those guns, against all those fighters, make their drop and escape while at 3,000'.  I see bombers slaughtered all the time coming in that low over an airbase.

                        One Baron Von Brownpants I put on ignore tried to ridicule me cause i have a lot of air time compared to shooting time. One thing there is no stat for is the amount of times bombers damage fighters. It happens all the time and they break off and land at close by airbases "all the time". Last night it happened to me 3 times. And its not like I can break off and chase them down either. But the way I see it if I can keep them away from my bombers then I won.

                      Most of the time the only ones who'll stay until the end are the heavy Jabos, and Im assuming cause they dont have kills to land. The 110's, Hurricanes, Mossies....ect But everyone else??? Its "run,run,run". I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 fighters. And for the score H'os, or anyone else who would look up someones stats for ridicule, never see those engagements. The truth is if theres two flashpoints on the map then Im flying towards one of them. And "sorry" to any ace if I chose to control some of it by getting at least 10,000' under me.

                   But I wont ridicule them for it. During a real war a damaged fighter would break off too. Especially if he had just re'armed 6 times and had 5 kills to score ,"his name in the marquee",after spinning around chasing his tail  in a furball for 1/2 hour.

                 Its all good baby, its all good.

10k   lol i never come in lower than 15 if im by myself 20k if im bombing a furball base.

[betty]

The main arenas in Aces High see many types of players but there are two main types; those who share the dream and those who simply want a shoot 'em up gaming experience.

not sure which one i am....any one have any idea????

[Mus51]

I agree with murdr here, i have nothing against ho's, cherry picking and all other stuff, its a tactic and every tactic has its own way to deal with it.

You can call me a hotard if u want when im in an IL2 killing tanks, but thats what im for: KILLING TANKS, not getting in a fight.

You can call me alt monkey when i have an Energy fighter and u have an more type of turn plane, but thats my only chance on survival.

You can call me cherry picker when im in a F4F above a furball since i cant get caught low n slow in it in a furball.

Theirs a bunch more of these kinds of things u can call me, but people have their reasons for it to do so.

I respect every style of play, even if its a warp that gets you behind my tail, war is hell and its not ment to play it fair. If you want a fair fight i suggest u go to the DA and not play in the MA.

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by goober69
10k   lol i never come in lower than 15 if im by myself 20k if im bombing a furball base.

                      Ive changed my ways some. Ive gotten lower in alt both to hit a little better, save a little climb time, and heat my guns up a little more. Ive actually become more motivated to becoming a better gunner then bomber.

                    But I still climb to alts that give me at least a fighting chance to take out targets and survive to land the airplanes. And I dont blame any bomber stick for wanting to get air under them and at least try to take some advantage away from enemy fighters.

                  Like Ive said I dont judge anyone for the way they play. The better sticks Ive met all seem to have the same outlook, and to play the game the best way it gives pleasure to "you".

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by betty
The main arenas in Aces High see many types of players but there are two main types; those who share the dream and those who simply want a shoot 'em up gaming experience.

not sure which one i am....any one have any idea????

I think you fit squarely in the shoot ME up gaming experience group

jk