Author Topic: Spit VIII vs Ki84  (Read 1106 times)

Offline mna78

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« on: October 21, 2007, 07:55:24 AM »
Hi everyone,

Been flying a few months, but started in buffs mainly.  Switched to flying some flighters last tour, was a painful experiance at first..... but kept with it.  Anyway my plane of choice is the Spit VIII mainly as it was suggested as a good learner plane in the Training Section on here.

I am by no means any great pilot but would like to fly some similar style planes to the Spit VIII (I also fly the V some times) just to mix it up a bit.

What's the Ki84 like, I have just tried it in TA and seems to fly similar the the SpitVIII & V.  Any other suggestions, I'd like a decent turning rig?

Cheers
Mark
Inflight name history:
mna78 > Mark > DMark > MarkV > [2 year break]Mark

Offline Fruda

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 12:29:51 PM »
It's on the same level as the Spitfire Mk. VIII... Down low, anyway. Its only drawbacks are low top speed (not even 390mph) and poor high-speed performance, courtesy of heavy control surfaces.

On the deck, though, it's a monster in the right hands.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 02:36:02 PM »
Never, ever use Combat Trim with the Ki-84.  It trims nose down as the speed gets higher and at 350mph you can't pull a blackout.  With combat trim off you can easily pull a blackout at 400 or 450mph.

The advantages of the Ki-84 over the Spitfire Mk VIII are visibility, durability, rate of fire, roll rate, fuel endurance, WEP recharge rate and low speed turning with flaps out.

The Spitfire's advantages are firepower, bullet trajectory, high speed elevator authority, climb rate, WEP duration and performance at altitude.

In each case the degree to which there is an advantage held by one or the other is different.  You will need to fly them both and see which one suits you better.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 07:40:26 AM »
Mna, the Ki-84 is a great plane, very similar to Spit VIII, though, perhaps, the VIII has an edge on it (Widewing has always stated that, unfortunately we live too far away, we couldn't have a showdown in DA! :D Just do a search on the BBS, there were several Ki-84 thread).

It's a bit nastier when it stalls than a Spit, but it's a very good furballer. I never turned off Combat Trim, and I never felt the need to do so. Anyway, many other pilots, like Karnak, prefers to disable it... your choice in the end.

Another thing: it's a Jap plane, that means poor protection, especially for the pilot, it's often the first red entry in the damage list.

It likes to fight nose up, mostly because the flap can be extracted only at very low speed (<170 mph, the second thing I hate about it) and, without them, the plane is hard to control in knife fights.

Karnak, may I ask you what you mean with "durability"? And when you say that one of Spitfire advantages is "firepower"? I'd say better ballistic, on the raw hitting power side I'd say they're equivalent, Ki has a good punch.

EDIT: corrected a typo, thanks for the quote, Lusche, I saw it there! ;D
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 08:19:52 AM by Gianlupo »
Live to fly, fly to live!

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23941
      • Last.FM Profile
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 08:04:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gianlupo

Karnak, may I ask you what you mean with "durability"? And when you say that one of Spitfire advantage is "firepower"? I'd say better ballistic, on the raw hitting power side I'd say they're equivalent, Ki has a good punch.


I would say the same. Destructive power is about the same, Ki-84 having 2x12.7mm instead of Spit's 4x .303. But while Hispanos have somewhat better long range capability, I actually prefer the higher rate of fire and much better weapons installation in the Ki-84 which both comes very handy in a furball.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline mna78

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 09:06:05 AM »
Thanks for the feedback guys, was trying the Ki84 in the DA last night during some Squad furballing.  I like it, handles well down in the Death Canyons but I think if push came to shove I'd take the Spit VIII up still over the Ki84, just feels slightly more maneuverable, but the Ki is a decent alternative if I fancy a change.

Any other suggestions on a similar style aircraft?
Inflight name history:
mna78 > Mark > DMark > MarkV > [2 year break]Mark

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23941
      • Last.FM Profile
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 09:34:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mna78
Thanks for the feedback guys, was trying the Ki84 in the DA last night during some Squad furballing.  I like it, handles well down in the Death Canyons but I think if push came to shove I'd take the Spit VIII up still over the Ki84, just feels slightly more maneuverable, but the Ki is a decent alternative if I fancy a change.

Any other suggestions on a similar style aircraft?


Well, there are the usual supects:

Spit 8, 9, 16 & 5
Hurricane II, if you want a real challenge take the I ;)
BF 109F, to some extend the G-2 too
N1k2
A6M5, if ya feel lucky try the A6M2
FM2
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 09:53:58 AM »
Gianlupo,

The Ki-84 takes more punishment before losing bits of itself, other than the pilot.  The wings in particular are much stronger.

I think the Spitfire may have the most fragile wings in the game, even more so than the A6M2.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9506
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2007, 10:30:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gianlupo
Mna, the Ki-84 is a great plane, very similar to Spit VIII, though, perhaps, the VIII has an edge on it (Widewing has always stated that, unfortunately we live too far away, we couldn't have a showdown in DA! :D Just do a search on the BBS, there were several Ki-84 thread).

A few weeks ago the AvA had a setup which featured the Spit8 against the Frank.  They really are quite close, a very fine matchup.  The Spit8 is much harder to handle at low speeds, though.  Since that's generally where I fight, I much (much) prefer the Frank.

- oldman

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2007, 01:11:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Gianlupo,

The Ki-84 takes more punishment before losing bits of itself, other than the pilot.  The wings in particular are much stronger.

I think the Spitfire may have the most fragile wings in the game, even more so than the A6M2.


CC, Karnak, never noticed that... maybe 'cause I'm too busy whining about the dang pilot! :D

Oldman, I bet you had a lot of fun! Too bad at Euro friendly hours the AvA is almost always empty. :(
Live to fly, fly to live!

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2007, 02:17:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
A few weeks ago the AvA had a setup which featured the Spit8 against the Frank.  They really are quite close, a very fine matchup.  The Spit8 is much harder to handle at low speeds, though.  Since that's generally where I fight, I much (much) prefer the Frank.

- oldman

I still have a film made by somebody some time ago in an AvA, Spit VIII vs Ki-84 setup and the Ki-84s were eating the Spit VIIIs for lunch.  The Ki-84 is a very deadly fighter in AH.  Not the best, but in the topend category.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

rednex21

  • Guest
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2007, 04:10:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Hurricane II, if you want a real challenge take the I ;)


This plane has become one of my favorites.  It's better than what a lot of people think


Banshee7

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2007, 12:09:53 PM »
"I think the Spitfire may have the most fragile wings in the game, even more so than the A6M2"

That is one thing where AH differs from RL. AFAIK the wings were remarkably strong due to their structure. I have seen pictures of some impressive damage though- on aircraft that landed.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23941
      • Last.FM Profile
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2007, 12:40:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rednex21
This plane has become one of my favorites.  It's better than what a lot of people think


Banshee7


Lets see...13 kills, 5 deaths in Hurri I in LW arenas.
Considering the usual standard Hurri I K/D I say:

WTG Banshee! :aok
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 01:53:56 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline Charge

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3414
Spit VIII vs Ki84
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2007, 01:25:29 PM »
"AFAIK the wings were remarkably strong due to their structure."

Well, the flexing may give indication that the wing was not actually very rigid but flexible in some ways which was supported by the tubular structure of the spar. The spar itself does not necessarily make the wing "more stronger" than those of other planes but "nearly as strong" or "as strong" keeping in mind the wing area and relative thinness of the wing profile. Some indication of relative structural strength could be calculated from the weight of the wings compared to the same detail of other fighters, but then again the structure design has a significant effect too.

-C+
"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."