General Climate Discussion

[lazs2]

yep.. it was like the smog devices of the 70's that were mandated by government.   we were not ready for them.   the cars were big V8's with carbs and no computers.   the smog devices were trash and made the cars run so badly that they got 50% less mileage and were always out of tune producing even more smog.   

When computers became small and powerful enough and fuel injection and timing could be controled by computer.. the cars instantly got better mileage and less smog.   these things were going to happen with or without the laws and hysteria..  the laws and hysteria just made things worse for a decade or so.

lazs

[Overlag]

or what the world has done with biofuels this year... we planted so much grape seed oil crops that there isnt enough grain (in the right places) anymore....

[Angus]

Bear in mind,overlag, that the EU has been substitizing land OUT OF USAGE almost to this day, up to an amount of almost 10% at times. This could all have been used for fuel.
Still waiting for the big teaser's answer though.

[bongaroo]

Did anyone notice that the same bunch that flat out refuse that co2 operates as a greenhouse gas also blame co2 from volcanoes for GW?
And by the way Whiskey, with the ice as an open system (so that co2 quantity can be debated) and a coffin as a closed system (so that it can possibly be proved that pollution is healthy), I'll give you a comparison.
It's about another "debunked hype", bird flu. Here comes a lesson.
"Scientists" (ahem) have apparently been claiming that the bird flu is related to the evil spanish disease which killed millions in 1918.
So, they dug for evidence in corpses that were buried in Spitzbergen. They did not manage to extract any useable matter so it was a failiure.
However, they found a useable corpse buried in ice, in Alaska, and presto, they were right, - more or less.
With the truth founded, they managed to trace down some survivors of the disease and insulate their antibodies which were then tested on active bird flu.
It worked very well, so a cure/vaccine is now in process.
Lessons to be learned:
1. Bird flu on the go would have been a global disaster, so precautions were right. (Asia)
2. Research lead to a result.
3. Denialists were wrong.
4 Ice is a much better system to store things from the past than a coffin 

Then comes the PS, question for you all:
Since the GW issue is related with CO2, there is an effort to reduce emissions. Now tell me exactly, what's good about it?

Reminds me of that "scientist" who kept saying cigarettes don't cause cancer as he took big tobacco money to line his pockets.

Wait a sec, isn't that same "scientist" now arguing that GW is a farce while big oil money lines his pockets?

hmmmmmmmmm

[Jackal1]

Hairspray is killing us all. 

Still they cling to the hull.

[Angus]

Reminds me of that "scientist" who kept saying cigarettes don't cause cancer as he took big tobacco money to line his pockets.

Wait a sec, isn't that same "scientist" now arguing that GW is a farce while big oil money lines his pockets?

hmmmmmmmmm

Ah, yes, indeed.

[alskahawk]

"Reminds me of that "scientist" who kept saying cigarettes don't cause cancer as he took big tobacco money to line his pockets.

Wait a sec, isn't that same "scientist" now arguing that GW is a farce while big oil money lines his pockets?"

 Oh jeez next you'll be saying our government lies to us. Cigarettes are good for us. Polution is not a problem. Crack? What Crack?(DC Mayor). I said Texas, not Taxes! (John Connelly or LBJ on bribery investigation) I use a wide stance when in the toilet(Larry Craig). What are you going to believe? What I'm telling you or your lying eyes?

[Holden McGroin]

Reminds me of that "scientist" who kept saying cigarettes don't cause cancer as he took big tobacco money to line his pockets.

Wait a sec, isn't that same "scientist" now arguing that GW is a farce while big oil money lines his pockets?

hmmmmmmmmm

this could be an example of the argumentum ad hominem or personal attack fallacy; that is, attempting to disprove X, not by addressing validity of X but by attacking the person who asserted X.

After all Exxon has been known to tell the truth from time to time

[Angus]

Always tickles though when big oil hires people to deny GW while talking their stocks up because of new opportunities in recent ice-free zones.
BTW, the arctic sea ice has now reached the 2nd smallest place since measurments started, and still has some 3 weeks to go. If it is not a record it is a runner up.

[alskahawk]

 Got to visit Mendenhall glacier in July. Sad. It's receding and quickly.

[Angus]

So are ours. All of them.

[lazs2]

yep.. it's the end of the world...  time for you guys to rend your garments and pull your hair and offer sacrifices at the altar of the high priest algore.

I am glad that you at least believe that a large portion of the scientific community can lie to us to further a personal agenda tho... that is progress.

The only thing that can save us is to go to a one world government and back to the dark ages...  never mind that it is getting cooler... if it gets cool then it will be "record" cooling... caused by man.  only a few scientists and algor and a one world government can save us..   Only when the great satan America has been punished will this plauge be ended.

lazs

[Baitman]

Back in the 1800's and early 1900's as a people we burned LOTS of coal. The emissions from coal are a lot worse then nat gas or gasoline. Why are things different now?

[Nwbie]

Back in the 1800's and early 1900's as a people we burned LOTS of coal. The emissions from coal are a lot worse then nat gas or gasoline. Why are things different now?

it's quantity - not quality

[Angus]

Actually Lazs, it's not the end of the world. It's simply like while some people try to fight trouble, other stick their head in the sand as long as they can.
Regarding my question before, the benefit of the co2 related discussion would be the wide-awake search for alternative energy sources as well as means to save energy.
This will give us more time before running out of oil.
It will not happen in my life, but still I care....