Author Topic: Man Suing the westboro church  (Read 1262 times)

Offline Maverick

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2007, 08:04:09 PM »
I think this is just freaking outstanding!!!!!!!!

Just because speech is free does not mean there are not limits to it and no repercussions for abusing others.
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2007, 08:11:41 PM »
exactly.  they are little more than common bullies.

(tho they'll probably never actually pay a dime...which sucks.)
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Offline Xargos

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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2007, 03:51:24 AM »
Even if the award was only a dollar it was still a victory.
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Offline Tigeress

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2007, 04:41:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yeah, or they can disband and only lose their current assets.  Then they reform and have no debt to anyone.


Hi Laser,

In addition to the church itself, Fred and his two daughters, by name, were targeted in the suit so even if WBC, itself, disbanded there remains Fred, daughter 1, and daughter 2 with the financial burden.

How would these three individuals escape that? Just wondering; I'm not a lawyer...

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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2007, 09:07:14 AM »
Simple, declare bankruptcy and then reform the church in the 4th in line's name.  It would be a superficial change, however Phelps and his two daughters wouldn't have any assets to their names.
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Offline Neubob

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2007, 09:22:24 AM »
I don't know how well that would work.

There are legal theories that can be used to find liability through association--given that the association is reasonably direct (defining reasonability in the legal world is pretty much equivalent to answering the question 'why' for scientists--its definition changes, readily, according to the situation).

The important thing to remember is that the court is not always deaf dumb and blind to games of administrative hide and seek. A court's hands are often, but not always tied in these matters, and getting away from liability simply by declaring bankruptcy, changing names and ownership is not a cure-all. If it was, very few corporations would ever choose to settle, or find themselves on the losing side of a decision.

Even if this church escapes monetary obligation, this sort of 'free speech' has now been officially painted in a tortious light.  This church, its successor, or any similar group is on notice that this behavior is actionable, and any efforts to carry on this practice will likely be met with a strong civil suit, backed up by current, relevant precedent.

Like I said earlier, perhaps a hollow victory for the dad, but definitely a significant footnote in caselaw.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 09:25:10 AM by Neubob »

Offline Dichotomy

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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2007, 09:34:38 AM »
As I understand it declaring folding the church won't  help the defendants.  The filing names Fred W. Phelps, SR, Westboro Baptist Church, Inc, Rebekah Phelps - Davis, and Shirley Phelps-Roger as defendants.  While they can fold the church the defendants are named individually so they are responsible for portions of the ruling.  

I'd like to see the final court documents to see how the damages are spread out.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 10:27:39 AM by Dichotomy »
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Offline Maverick

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2007, 10:26:01 AM »
You know, it just couldn't have happened to "nicer people".

:D :aok
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2007, 10:31:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
where does "freedom of speech" end and harassment begin?


When congress passes a law abridging your freedom of speech.  Until then your 1st amendment rights are maintained.
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Offline SirLoin

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2007, 01:59:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
i wonder if people picket their church while they are holding services.  they should.


That's what they want...Free publicity for their bogus religion.
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Offline BBBB

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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2007, 03:35:05 PM »
Even if no money or assets change hands here, this lawsuit sets a precedence. It allows other families to go after this group, and while I don't agree with clogging up our justice system with lawsuits, in this case it seems warranted giving the actions of this group. If enough people sue them, at some point the Govt is going to have to step in and hold these types of groups accountable.

 As it is now, this group is nothing more than a punk kid yelling obscenities from behind his mothers dress. I am sure if you came to them and started picketing their services, their meals, their day to day lives they would have a **** fit. On top of that you would get these types publicity and a stage to spread their warped message to even larger groups.

 I say keep suing them. Even if they have to keep breaking up and restructuring, eventually one of two things is going to happen. One, they will not have enough members left to do much of anything, since a good numbers will most likely drop like flies as soon as they loose their 1st Amendment blanket to hide under.  Or two, they will all be bankrupt to the point they will have to start holding "services" in parks and parking lots. This will go even further to thin out the membership of this group.

 For me, if I came across this group picketing some soldiers funeral..I am not sure how I would be able to control myself. I think it would take everything I had not to launch a full blown assault on their group. I am all for freedom of speech and expression, but there comes a point where that speech and expression, cross into disrespect and harassment. That is the point my blood starts to boil. I applaud the few people that have stood up to this group, legally or otherwise.

Offline Tigeress

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2007, 03:44:56 PM »
Perhaps I am wrong here, but...
 
"Freedom of Speech" has lots of exceptions already on the books.

That is to say, there are things you can not say under penalty law and if you say them and get caught you will likely go to prison for it.

And in many cases... federal prison, for a long long time in some cases.

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« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 03:47:01 PM by Tigeress »

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2007, 10:31:32 AM »
i dont see much difference between the anti-gay hatred spread by this pastor and that preached by the late Jerry Fallwell(if they had given Fallwell's corpse an enima,they could have burried him in a matchbox)

It seems if you put the title "Reverend" before your name,you can get away with saying/doing almost anything .
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Offline MotorOil1

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2007, 11:24:01 AM »
Fallwell didn't picket soldier's funerals.  I think that's what the main point is.  The Phelps were promoting hate and causing hardship at these funerals and that's the basis for the lawsuit.  I mean why would you picket about homosexuality at a soldier's funeral.  I think the connection is a little obscure......

They went over the top on the free speech thing.  I think if they had actually picketed a gay rights parade or just picketed without causing a disturbance they would have been fine.

What is this family trying to achieve, really?  I mean if they hate the US so much and see the entire country going to hell, then why don't they leave?  I'm sure Iran would like to have them.

Search Youtube for "America's most hated family"
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Offline Tigeress

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Man Suing the westboro church
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2007, 01:45:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MotorOil1
Fallwell didn't picket soldier's funerals.  I think that's what the main point is.  The Phelps were promoting hate and causing hardship at these funerals and that's the basis for the lawsuit.  I mean why would you picket about homosexuality at a soldier's funeral.  I think the connection is a little obscure......

They went over the top on the free speech thing.  I think if they had actually picketed a gay rights parade or just picketed without causing a disturbance they would have been fine.

What is this family trying to achieve, really?  I mean if they hate the US so much and see the entire country going to hell, then why don't they leave?  I'm sure Iran would like to have them.

Search Youtube for "America's most hated family"



They are just attention-seeking no-lifers. Thats about it.

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