BOB pilots dint do much!!!!

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by ramzey
are you trying to insult Poles?

Yes.   Hence the misc. ramblings of the language learning bit, as well.  

Originally posted by ramzey
During the Battle of Britain, between August 30th and October 11th, No. 303 Squadron tallied 126 enemy aircraft destroyed, 13 probably destroyed and 9 damaged.

Yep.   The most kills of any RAF Squadron in the BoB.   They were hated by RAF and most English at first.   But, the more the English civilians and RAF pilots saw how they carried themselves, they were heroes.  

One day I will go to the Memorial and to Warsaw.    I'll wait until my 6 year old son is old enough to understand the big picture and how they were treated.  

More over <> ramzey.   You and I have had some go arounds, but all is forgotten after your post.   I'll be in California either in 2008 or 2009.    I've got to share some drinks with Wolfala, you and your spouses.

[Dowding]

Until I mentioned the Poles, they again, were just left out.

There you go again. You seem to expect that whenever BoB is mentioned, the Poles should be patted on the back and raised on a plinth to much fanfare.

[Obie303]

The story of Gnys shooting down two Dorniers on September 1, the story is true.  Here is another story that many people don't know;

"On September 12, 1939, Lt. Jan Falkowski, an instructor at the Polish Aviation Training Center, was flying a PWS 26 from Lublin to Sokal when three Messerschmitt Bf109 fighters spotted his fabric-covered biplane. Anticipating an easy victory, the three Germans promptly attacked. It was a big mistake. Fully aerobatic, the PWS was one of the finest trainers in pre-war Europe. With Lt. Falkowski at the controls, the three Germans received a "master class" in the art of dogfighting. In a remarkable exhibition of flying skill, Lt. Falkowski outmaneuvered the advanced Bf109s, causing one to crash in flames and the others to withdraw in frustration."

[/IMG]

(I happen to own this print).  To say that the Polish pilots were not well trained was untrue.

The Czech's did have a squadron that took place during the BoB.  They were the 312 Squadron.  Josef Frantisek (a Czech) was flying with the Polish Air Force since July 1939 and was the highest scoring pilot during the BoB with 17 victories and 1 probable.  Frantisek flew with the 303 squadron.  Sadly, Frantisek was killed in an accident in 40'

Obie

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Dowding
There you go again. You seem to expect that whenever BoB is mentioned, the Poles should be patted on the back and raised on a plinth to much fanfare.

I merely spoke the truth.   Sorry you feel "differently".

[Excel1]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
The Poles were massacred needlessly at Monte Cassino.

cassino was a meat grinder for the allies, lack of armour support at crucial times and the courage and tenacity of crack german paras made them pay dearly for every inch of ground they took. sorry this is off topic, but i have in the past heard the claim that the poles were used badly at cassino but not an explanation as to why, so im just curious as to how so. im more farmilar with the nz involvment at cassino so im far from an expert on the subject, so i could be easily wrong here but from what ive heard  i understand the germans had started retreating from the cassino area when the poles assaulted the ruins of the abbey, which if so, begs the question was the poles assualt into the teeth of the remaining defenders too late in the fighting to justify the high casualties they suffered? Is that what you mean by massacred needlessly?

also i agree 100% with you. that moral mountain that the allies stood on became the size of an ant hill when they screwed the poles out of liberty.

[Holden McGroin]

The Few (Mann, Cruise) will be coming out soon, and we will learn the truth about the Battle of Britian.

[Angus]

You left out Affleck

Anyway:

"The Allies made a deal with the Devil and sold out the very country in exile that fought with everything to lose."

If you mean by not immediately opening a front between France and Germany, then enlighten me please.

[Dowding]

Masherbrum, what I should have said is:

"You seem to expect that whenever BoB is mentioned, the Poles should be patted on the back and raised on a plinth to much fanfare, above all others, depite the fact that they were the best scoring minority, but a minority all the same. "

At the end of day it was a team effort. Without the Poles the battle would have been very difficult, but without the rest of the RAF the Poles could never have won. That is the truth.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by Excel1
cassino was a meat grinder for the allies, lack of armour support at crucial times and the courage and tenacity of crack german paras made them pay dearly for every inch of ground they took. sorry this is off topic, but i have in the past heard the claim that the poles were used badly at cassino but not an explanation as to why, so im just curious as to how so. im more farmilar with the nz involvment at cassino so im far from an expert on the subject, so i could be easily wrong here but from what ive heard  i understand the germans had started retreating from the cassino area when the poles assaulted the ruins of the abbey, which if so, begs the question was the poles assualt into the teeth of the remaining defenders too late in the fighting to justify the high casualties they suffered? Is that what you mean by massacred needlessly?

also i agree 100% with you. that moral mountain that the allies stood on became the size of an ant hill when they screwed the poles out of liberty.

all true,  but
do you think Germans would abandon Cassino if there will be not another assault coming?

Originally posted by Angus

Anyway:

"The Allies made a deal with the Devil and sold out the very country in exile that fought with everything to lose."

If you mean by not immediately opening a front between France and Germany, then enlighten me please.

you are slow learner as for icelanders i know...........
dig around Tehran '43 conference

[Obie303]

Originally posted by Dowding
Masherbrum, what I should have said is:

"You seem to expect that whenever BoB is mentioned, the Poles should be patted on the back and raised on a plinth to much fanfare, above all others, depite the fact that they were the best scoring minority, but a minority all the same. "

At the end of day it was a team effort. Without the Poles the battle would have been very difficult, but without the rest of the RAF the Poles could never have won. That is the truth.

This is all true.  What Mash was talking about was the Poles didn't get any recognition for their efforts.  And the truth still applies today.  Whenever anyone mentions the BoB, the Poles are still left out.

Take a look at the original movie, The Battle of Britain.  The Poles were depicted as babbling idiots and the squadron leader kept yelling at them to shut up.  I wonder if John Kent would have thought that was an accurate depiction.  (Kent was the CO of the 303).

Obie

[Angus]

Originally posted by ramzey
all true,  but
do you think Germans would abandon Cassino if there will be not another assault coming?

 


you are slow learner as for icelanders i know...........
dig around Tehran '43 conference

You then do not know squat, for you fell for the bait, I have already quoted on this thread what happened in Teheran.
Churchill wanted Poles to be free, Stalin not, and FDR was the odd man. Go figure!

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Angus
You then do not know squat, for you fell for the bait, I have already quoted on this thread what happened in Teheran.
Churchill wanted Poles to be free, Stalin not, and FDR was the odd man. Go figure!

Wrong.   Churchill and FDR needed the Devil to win the war.   Every book I have ever read on the subject states this.   Paint the picture any way you wish, it ends up being the same picture.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Obie303
This is all true.  What Mash was talking about was the Poles didn't get any recognition for their efforts.  And the truth still applies today.  Whenever anyone mentions the BoB, the Poles are still left out.

Obie

[Excel1]

Originally posted by ramzey
all true,  but
do you think Germans would abandon Cassino if there will be not another assault coming?

no, they wern't quitters and it must have been pretty evident from the  determination and stubbiness they displayed in the earlier cassino battles that they were going to slug it out to the bitter end and take a heavy toll on the allies as they had done right through the cassino campaign. it seems to me that the allies tactic of using disjointed and under strength assault forces backfired badly and only played in to german hands, which ensured a long drawn out casualty fest. beats me why they didnt throw the kitchen sink at the germans from the very start (and i dont mean blowing the crap out of the monastery), or at least by the time of the indian - nz assaults, by using an overwhelming force including the poles who were chomping at the bit to get at the germans. nz troops learned in crete that the best way to deal with german paras was to get in their face with bullet and bayonet and stay there i.e keep them off balance. if given the time to organize and form counter attacks as eventually happened in crete and repeatedly at cassino the paras were a punishing foe

[Angus]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Wrong.   Churchill and FDR needed the Devil to win the war.   Every book I have ever read on the subject states this.   Paint the picture any way you wish, it ends up being the same picture.

?
And who do you refer to as the Devil?