Author Topic: another take  (Read 1344 times)

Offline john9001

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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2007, 02:54:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Probably the fear of Red Army going all the way to the West throwing "allies" into the Atlantic was too strong, so Truman had to bluff.


the red army would have never gotten out of germany.

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2007, 02:56:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Training/preparation is different from true intentions.

OTOH at least half of the job in case of invasion had to be done by Soviet Army.


LMAO when was the Soviets gonna do their half Boroda?

August 5: Atomic bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.
August 8: Russia declares war on Japan.
August 9: Atomic bomb is dropped on Nagasaki.
August 14: Japan accepts Allied terms.
August 15: V-J Day. ...

In the Winter of 1945?

:huh

Mac

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2007, 03:06:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
USSR didn't do anything towards Cold War, the Blue side is totally responsible for it. Red side only reacted to hostile actions.

Fact is that Truman told Stalin about Atomic Bomb in Potsdam, and it really scared him, resulted in immediate attention to Soviet nuclear program.

Probably the fear of Red Army going all the way to the West throwing "allies" into the Atlantic was too strong, so Truman had to bluff.


Yep US and Britian was gonna feed the people of Berlin but, well, the Soviets decided to fence half of Berlin in to feed them... wait they forgot the food.

Immediate attention to Soviet nuclear what? a program LMAO...

Truman bluffed? LMAO... dammm good bluff.  I wonder where the third Nuke would have landed Boroda?

Mac

*Livin in fear of the Red Army*
:rofl

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2007, 03:22:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
LMAO when was the Soviets gonna do their half Boroda?

August 5: Atomic bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.
August 8: Russia declares war on Japan.
August 9: Atomic bomb is dropped on Nagasaki.
August 14: Japan accepts Allied terms.
August 15: V-J Day. ...

In the Winter of 1945?

:huh

Mac


It was agreed in Yalta that USSR attacks Japan no later then 3 month after Victory over Germany. It was Aug 9th, Red Army attacked on Aug 8th.

About 10,000km to regroup forces from Europe to Far East - can't be done immediately.

We defeated the main Japanese Army forces at the continent, and we had to participate in an invasion.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2007, 03:25:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Yep US and Britian was gonna feed the people of Berlin but, well, the Soviets decided to fence half of Berlin in to feed them... wait they forgot the food.


The reasons for the "Blockade of Berlin" are quite obvious and they are 100% Western fault. I am sick of repeating what really happened again and again.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2007, 03:27:21 PM »
Probably the fear of Red Army going all the way to the West throwing "allies" into the Atlantic was too strong, so Truman had to bluff.
====
After the surrender of May 8, 1945 extinguished the common threat of Nazi Germany, Patton was quick to assert the Soviet Union would cease to be an ally of the United States. He was concerned that some 25,000 American POWs had been liberated from POW camps by the Soviets, but were never returned to the US. In fact, he urged his superiors to evict the Soviets from central and eastern Europe. Patton thought that the Red Army was weak, under-supplied, and vulnerable, and the United States should act on these weaknesses before the Soviets could consolidate their position. In this regard, he told then-Undersecretary of War Robert P. Patterson that the "point system" being used to demobilize Third Army troops was destroying it and creating a vacuum that the Soviets would exploit. "Mr. Secretary, for God’s sake, when you go home, stop this point system; stop breaking up these armies," pleaded the general. "Let’s keep our boots polished, bayonets sharpened, and present a picture of force and strength to these people, the Soviets. This is the only language they understand." Asked by Patterson — who would become Secretary of War a few months later — what he would do, Patton replied: "I would have you tell the Red Army where their border is, and give them a limited time to get back across. Warn them that if they fail to do so, we will push them back across it."
========
Once can only guess what the result would have been had Pattons advice been followed.
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2007, 03:56:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
The reasons for the "Blockade of Berlin" are quite obvious and they are 100% Western fault. I am sick of repeating what really happened again and again.


yes, everyone knows the berlin wall was to keep out american spies that were going to steal the secrets of the USSR.

like the russian B29 bomber, ah er i mean the TU4.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2007, 04:44:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda


Fact is that Truman told Stalin about Atomic Bomb in Potsdam, and it really scared him, resulted in immediate attention to Soviet nuclear program.




No he didn't, but I'm sure that's what your former Soviet over-lords told you during your weekly Youn Pioneer meetings.

I do have to give credit to the Soviets, they did do the spying game better than we did, having some high placed moles within the Manhatten Project.  This is where Stalin received his information about the atom bomb and not from Truman.  

ESPIONAGE AND THE MANHATTAN PROJECT



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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2007, 04:50:06 PM »
It is a fact that at Potsdam Truman told Stalin that he (truman) had a brand new weapon, a super bomb.  Where Borada was wrong is that Stalin already knew about it.
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Offline Dago

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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2007, 04:54:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Reading discussions in Russian forums. Some people say that Navy almost openly opposed using A-bombs, Admirals thought that sieged Japan had to surrender by the next Winter, and there was no need for invasion at all. Unfortunately, they don't give any references :(

It seems to me that bombings had one main goal: to scare Soviet leadership.


Oh get over yourself and your screwed up mess of a country. Nobody cares.
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Offline SD67

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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2007, 05:02:33 PM »
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
that depends...  "The Cold War" as we know it might have been avoidable, but there were tensions and hostility between the US and Russia going back to well before WW2 even started.  In hindsight a conflict of some sort between democracy and communism was unavoidable, judging by the distrust our leaders showed for the USSR they knew it as well.


Democracy Vs Communism wasn't the source of the conflict. In the end it came down to the mindsets and actions of the men who controlled the situation.
If it wasn't for the intense paranoia of Stalin, and his subsequent actions, post war Europe would have been a very different place.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2007, 05:38:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Reading discussions in Russian forums. Some people say that Navy almost openly opposed using A-bombs, Admirals thought that sieged Japan had to surrender by the next Winter, and there was no need for invasion at all. Unfortunately, they don't give any references :(

It seems to me that bombings had one main goal: to scare Soviet leadership.


Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan was scheduled to begin on November 1, 1945

Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be more than 250,000 Americans killed or wounded on Kyushu alone.

Admiral Leahy was (I think) in the Navy.  Here was an admiral who was planning for invasion, not seige.

As for The cold war being blamed entirely on the USA (or atleast anti-Soviet countries) the USA and its allies had a nuclear monopoly from 1945 to 1949.  The reason the Soviets built the bomb is because they feared us having it, but the USA could have used nuclear blackmail or nuclear war against the soviets during that period without fear of nuclear counterattack if that were our intent.

Instead we went from a navy of 105 carriers to 6 aircraft carriers and resulted in a wholesale resignation of many Navy leaders in 1949 in protest to the Navy downsizing.

In 1946 we went from 557 billion in military spending to 52.4 billion in 1947.

I can see how Uncle Joe could have been concerned with the USA cutting military spending by 90%.

When in 1946 the USA, Canada and the UK issued a joint declaration asking for int'l controls and cooperation regarding nuclear weapons and technology I can see how that was threatening to Joe.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2007, 05:46:52 PM »
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Originally posted by SD67
Democracy Vs Communism wasn't the source of the conflict. In the end it came down to the mindsets and actions of the men who controlled the situation.
If it wasn't for the intense paranoia of Stalin, and his subsequent actions, post war Europe would have been a very different place.


Yeah, the soviets would have taken all of europe.


It was right to be paranoid of them.  Millions upon millions died directly in their hands post ww2.
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Offline bsdaddict

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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2007, 06:06:15 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
It was right to be paranoid of them.  Millions upon millions died directly in their hands post ww2.
and pre-...

Offline crockett

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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2007, 06:21:50 PM »
He was a soldier, no different than any other whom carried out their duty during a war. Just because he piloted the plane that dropped the bomb, doesn't make him better or worse than all the other solders that fought in ww2. Regardless of what side they were on, they all fought for what they believed in and for their countries.

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