Snowflakes From Rumsfeld

[rpm]

linky
For those that think Donald Rumsfeld  and the Bush Administration didn't lie and manipulate the American people about the "War on Terror", enjoy the snowflakes.

The memos, often referred to as "snowflakes,"  reveals a defense secretary disdainful of media criticism and driven to reshape public opinion of the Iraq war.

Rumsfeld produced 20 to 60 snowflakes a day and regularly poured out his thoughts in writing as the basis for developing policy, aides said. The memos are not classified but are marked "for official use only."

In a 2004 memo on the deteriorating situation in Iraq, Rumsfeld concluded that the challenges there are "not unusual." Pessimistic news reports -- "our publics risk falling prey to the argument that all is lost" -- simply result from the wrong standards being applied.

Under siege in April 2006, when a series of retired generals denounced him and called for his resignation, "Talk about Somalia, the Philippines, etc. Make the American people realize they are surrounded in the world by violent extremists," he wrote. "Keep elevating the threat level".

People will "rally" to sacrifice, he noted, "They are looking for leadership. Sacrifice = Victory."

 "Connect Iran to Iraq", "Iran is the concern of the American people, and if we fail in Iraq, it will advantage Iran,"

In one of his longer ruminations, in May 2004, Rumsfeld considered whether to redefine the terrorism fight as a "worldwide insurgency." The goal of the enemy, he wrote, is to "end the state system, using terrorism, to drive the non-radicals from the world." He then advised aides "to test what the results could be" if the war on terrorism were renamed.

[SirLoin]

i am torn about what we should do in Iraq...It's become the quagmire i predicted when GWB mentioned outa the blue that Iraq was to be lumped in with the Sept11 attackers..

But what to do now?The current sectarian violence has nothing to do with the invasion except for the Mullah's pulling the strings blowing up fellow Muslim's in the hopes of playing the world press that the invasion has launched the country into civil war...

I feel for the Kurds..even though when they attack Turkey(the bad guys),and the same faction(but with a different name) attacks Iran(the good guys)..all controlled by the same leader...I feel for them cause they have stepped up and ended secular fighting amongs themselves..have established some stability & infastructure rebuilding(there are no Mullahs telling them what they must do)..

and now the political dialog in USA is when(not if) the coilition forces will pull out..The Kurds are going to be hung out to dry once again.

..It's going to be bloody awful over there for many years to come.

[rpm]

They haven't stepped up and ended violence, they've just finished the ethnic/sectarian cleansing.

[x0847Marine]

"Talk about Somalia, the Philippines, etc. Make the American people realize they are surrounded in the world by violent extremists,"

Someone show that imbecile a map and point out Somalia and the Philippines don't "surround" the United States... and oh boy would I love to see a drunk illegal alien plow into his limo one day just to remind him who is more likely to cause crap on US soil.

Then again even a stupid loser with the intellect of a Fern like him knows the righty sheep will buy even the lamest of nonsensical rhetoric... anything to avoid from agreeing with the other team.

[CptTrips]

Originally posted by x0847Marine
Then again even a stupid loser with the intellect of a Fern like him knows the righty sheep will buy even the lamest of nonsensical rhetoric... anything to avoid from agreeing with the other team.

XMarine,

I think if you were to try and be completely fair, you admit that statement holds equally true for the lefty sheep.  You know, the "Bush got us into Iraq so he could make Haliburton rich, or 9-11 was an inside job...building 7...blah blah blah" types.

I think if you consider the fact that someone could get on a plane from any of those locations and land in the United States within 24 hours, makes the statement that we are surrounded plausible.  It's a small world and getting smaller.  Its not like they have to swim here.

However I agreee with you the threat posed by illegal Mexican immigration can't be ingored.


RPM,

I saw nothing in the quotes you provided that looked like someone trying to lie or convince others to lie.  

Manipulate? Probably.  Surely, in fairness, you would admit that both parties try and manipulate public opinion through rhetoric?  Do you really think there aren't similar memo's floating around Democratic administrations directed towards causes THEY feel are important?

Could we agree that FDR, for instance, did quite a bit of manipulating of American public opinion prior to our entry into WWII?  He kept increasing the range of US destroyer escort of British ships leaving our shores, even issuing orders to fire on U-Boats seen attacking British ships (which was probably illeagal).  He cut off oil shipments to Japan knowing full well that would probably lead to a Japanese attack at some point.  He purposefully and intentionally skirted and circumvented the laws when ever necessary in order to  pull us closer to the allies cause and if necessary manufacture an attack upon our forces in order to rally the population into declaring war.  Why?  Because he felt it was vital to make the American people realize they are surrounded in the world by the threat of Fascist agression.  Even if it meant manipulating them into that realization.


Regards,
Wab

[Maverick]

It would be nice to have the entire "snowflake" so it could be judged in it's real context rather than cherry picking an excerpt out of them and posting it.

I'm not a rumsfeld fan but cherry picking a part of something to make a point or to make the other person "sound" like something they did not say is hardly worth while.

[clerick]

I was for this post before i was against it.

[x0847Marine]

FYI Donald Rumsfeld had to flee France or face arrest on charges of torture.

LMAO

http://wor.ldne.ws/node/8596

US embassy officials abruptly ended Rumsfelds breakfast meeting in Paris and quickly aided the suspect in his escape to Germany, where at one point Rummy also faced war crimes charges... those charges were dismissed by a federal court.

Its nice to see the US govt obstructing justice, ignoring international laws while aiding and abetting a wanted suspect of war crimes... makes me want to eat some Apple pie in my US flag snuggies while singing the star spangled banner.

[Maverick]

Well the door opens on the way out of here. Feel free to take the exit to the land of your choice.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Maverick
Well the door opens on the way out of here. Feel free to take the exit to the land of your choice.

Yes, thats the answer to our govt flagrantly ignoring international law and suborning suspected war criminals; leave.

1984 Convention against Torture was ratified by both the United States and France, we have a legal obligation to turn over suspected torturers / war criminals...  I hear politicians bellowing on and on about adhering to "the rule of law", except when it applies to one of their friends.. like Libby / Rummy.

Rummy is a citizen like you and I, since he resigned he cant claim immunity as a head of state or government official, and international law does not recognize such immunity in the case of international crimes including the crime of torture.

I do have my passport ready tho.. nobody's threatening to dirty bomb Amsterdam. What the repubs & dems have collectively done to help ruin this country is not what the US stands for IMO, its still the best place to live.. just a shame our leaders are corrupt liars with no values except what serves them / their party best... thats not a good representation of "The American Way" to the rest of the world.

One reason I like calling out my leaders on their epic failures and fk-ups, too many people... like you apparently, are brainwashed into thinking its un patriotic to talk smack about the gov, I on the other hand think holding them accountable, if only in public, is the most patriotic this anyone can do.

[Yeager]

I do have my passport ready
====
then get the hell out.  your kind aren't wanted here.  who needs you?  france?

Also, which snowflake was the lie?  Looked like media spin to me.

"Talk about Somalia, the Philippines, etc. Make the American people realize they are surrounded in the world by violent extremists," he wrote. "Keep elevating the threat level".
====
This is not a lie.

People will "rally" to sacrifice, he noted, "They are looking for leadership. Sacrifice = Victory."
====
this is not a lie.

"Connect Iran to Iraq", "Iran is the concern of the American people, and if we fail in Iraq, it will advantage Iran,"
====
this is not a lie.

As far as sending a proud American who served his nation to the best of his ability to another country to stand trial in a kangaroo court I say this:  Anyone who would actively step fourth and try to send this man to another country to face trumped up BS charges of torture in france, or anywhere else for that matter, should be summarily executed by a military honor guard.

you are getting desperate rpm, then again...I dont blame you.  Anyway, its fun watching you meltdown.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by Yeager
I do have my passport ready
====
then get the hell out.  your kind aren't wanted here.  who needs you?  france?

Also, which snowflake was the lie?  Looked like media spin to me.

"Talk about Somalia, the Philippines, etc. Make the American people realize they are surrounded in the world by violent extremists," he wrote. "Keep elevating the threat level".
====
This is not a lie.

People will "rally" to sacrifice, he noted, "They are looking for leadership. Sacrifice = Victory."
====
this is not a lie.

"Connect Iran to Iraq", "Iran is the concern of the American people, and if we fail in Iraq, it will advantage Iran,"
====
this is not a lie.

As far as sending a proud American who served his nation to the best of his ability to another country to stand trial in a kangaroo court I say this:  Anyone who would actively step fourth and try to send this man to another country to face trumped up BS charges of torture in france, or anywhere else for that matter, should be summarily executed by a military honor guard.

you are getting desperate rpm, then again...I dont blame you.  Anyway, its fun watching you meltdown.

Yeag, I don't think that RPM said that those direct statements were lies' in themselves. I think he meant that they were used to abett the basis of some of the things' that have been done during the War on Terror...

[Yeager]

For those that think Donald Rumsfeld and the Bush Administration didn't lie and manipulate the American people
====
I suppose to some extent every administration in the past two centuries has lied and manipulated the American people......

[Maverick]

International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights (LDH) filed the complaint on Thursday after learning that Rumsfeld was scheduled to visit Paris.


Marine,

This is the source of the allegations in the article. Note that nowhere in the article is there any indication that an unbiased investigation had been conducted regarding the allegations. Also note that the “complaint” (allegations actually since there has been no official investigation or indictment other than the one that has already been dismissed) were not “filed” until rumsfeld’s itinerary was announced. You don’t possibly think that it might just be a political or show action do you?

The article has a “tone” like it’s some kind of journalism yet the allegations are not listed and all of the “information” that is being “reported” comes from this kind of source:

“unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest.”
Something that has been unconfirmed and is only an opinion of the unnamed unidentified individual supposedly rendering the “information that was reported.

“human rights groups filed a criminal complaint”
No complaint details listed as to the actual violation and a complaint by anyone is just that, a complaint. There has been no investigation or indictment. An allegation is not a conviction or proof that wrongdoing has been done or that the person named is responsible for it.

Anti-torture protesters in France believe
More opinion reported as if it means anything. They could believe in flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz but that doesn’t mean anything or have any bearing about why rumsfeld left. Hell, he may have just been there for one meeting so his leaving has no bearing on any allegations what so ever.

According to activists in France
OK they are calling themselves activists and this means what? Do they have anything other than a desire to be politically active to lend any credibility to them? There sure as hell wasn’t anything on the article to show that. There also isn’t any reason the “French Authorities” can’t do their investigation while Rumsfeld is not there either. If the folks with the allegation had any proof they could have supplied it anyhow and possibly gotten an indictment provided there is any veracity to their allegations.

My comment about leaving was related more to the inflammatory prose you put in your earlier post about apple pie etc. and after seeing virtually nothing from you about anything positive for the country you live in. If you really hate it, go somewhere else. We can certainly do without your constant negative rhetoric.

As for the brainwashing bit you allege, you really ought to look in the mirror, particularly after using that article as a source.

[Dadano]

Found a quality documentary about some of the goings-on in a post 9/11 American government. Might find it interesting.
Clicky