Kalash used by US Army in Iraq

[Motherland]

Definately an AKM/variant. Ribbed upper reciever tells you right away its not an AK47, and the metal magazine tells you its not an AK74 (all the 5.45 magazines Ive seen are bakelite/black plastic). The curvature of the magazine also makes it obvious its not a '74 or other 5.45 AK.

"These are probably just Chinese copies. Soviet mass-produced AKM or AK-74 have very special muzzle compensators, I didn't see any AKMs in any Iraqi footage."
Only the '74 has the large muzzle break, the AKM has the regular spoon break (which is also present on foreign AK's)

I actually think its an AIMS, based on the stock.

[Suave]

Originally posted by Boroda
IIRC AK-74 (5.45mm) never were exported, at least to non-Warsaw Treaty countries.

These are probably just Chinese copies. Soviet mass-produced AKM or AK-74 have very special muzzle compensators, I didn't see any AKMs in any Iraqi footage.

ak-74s are in use with some middle east countries, probably not exported from russian factories though.

I think the polish make metal magazines. Seems like I've seen tantals with metal mags but I might be mistaken.

AKMs have the slanted muzzle break, AK47s have no muzzle break.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
A lot of the spec ops guys I know prefer the old M-14 to either. They generally like the old 1911 better than the Beretta.
 

THe M-14 is a fantastic gun... wish I could find one at a descent price to use as a hunting rifle.  The M-9 Beretta is a POS compared to the 1911.  If it comes down to drawing the Beretta to save your life, you are better off throwing it at the enemy and beating the crap outta him with your helmet while he is trying to shoot you with it.

[Motherland]

I made a little AK identification guide, using the parts of the AK that I commonly use to tell the difference. I got cocky on the AK47/AKM, and tried to identify the receiver type, which is probably wrong. Of course, this applies only to Russian AK's, foreign variants will be a little different.
It includes the SVD also, although it wasnt designed by Kalashnikov.

Note, though its not clearly defined here, the the dustcover/upper receivers on AKM's and AK74's are ribbed. This, for the most part, is the easiest way to tell them apart. That, and the muzzle break (or lack thereof), front sight, and dimple above the magazine well (the AK47, since it has a milled receiver, has a large, rectangular depression, while all other AK's have small, oval depressions, as the receivers are stamped).

[AquaShrimp]

So whats the consensus, what are the Iraqis shooting (AKM, Ak47, or Ak74)?

[Viking]

Originally posted by Suave
No they're most likely akm's or ak47's.

Supposedly there was an investigation because so many of the enemy kia's in fallujah had holes in their heads that they suspected execution style killings. Turns out that often times all the enemy would expose was his head through a window or above a wall and the marines would shoot them using m16s with optics from usually 150m-200m.

You'd need a lot of luck to do that with an akm or even an ak74.

The supposed inaccuracy of the AK47/AKM is greatly exaggerated. The AK's you see used in Africa and other 3rd world countries are old and worn weapons and crap ammunition. Put those same optics on a new AKM using good ammunition and it will be just as good at 200m. The M-16 may be more accurate, but we're talking millimetres at those ranges.

[Suave]

Originally posted by Viking
The supposed inaccuracy of the AK47/AKM is greatly exaggerated. The AK's you see used in Africa and other 3rd world countries are old and worn weapons and crap ammunition. Put those same optics on a new AKM using good ammunition and it will be just as good at 200m. The M-16 may be more accurate, but we're talking millimetres at those ranges.

No. A new russian built ak74 shoots a group that's about 6 inches at 50m, 12 inches at 100, and wider than a man's torso at 200m. Magnification on an ak is superfluous.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Suave
No. A new russian built ak74 shoots a group that's about 6 inches at 50m, 12 inches at 100, and wider than a man's torso at 200m. Magnification on an ak is superfluous.

Are you sure you're not mixing up inches and centimeters? That doesn't sound anywhere near right for the accuracy. That would be a horrible accuracy if true and I doubt any military would accept such from an assault rifle.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Suave
No. A new russian built ak74 shoots a group that's about 6 inches at 50m, 12 inches at 100, and wider than a man's torso at 200m. Magnification on an ak is superfluous.

Lol, I'm afraid you are misinformed. I've personally shot 2" groups at 200 yards with a Yugo AKM with iron sights, from a prone position with hand support. Here are a few targets from a AK-103 (AK74 in 7.62R) and the 5.54R is considered more accurate than the 7.62R:





Freehand at 100 yards:





Fast shooting at 100 yards:






With VEPR PKAS scope at 100 yards from bench:





A properly built AK-74 with optics is a very effective weapon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJM8asnj6JY


And the 5.54R is a better penetrating round than the 5.56N:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqaeX2KigSc

[storch]

Originally posted by Viking
The supposed inaccuracy of the AK47/AKM is greatly exaggerated. The AK's you see used in Africa and other 3rd world countries are old and worn weapons and crap ammunition. Put those same optics on a new AKM using good ammunition and it will be just as good at 200m. The M-16 may be more accurate, but we're talking millimetres at those ranges.

I have fired a hungarian or czech made AK which belongs to a friend and I was impressed with it's accuracy at 200m with iron sights.  it's fit and finish were superb especially for what basically amounts to a cheap machine stamped weapon.

another friend has a chinese copy which while not as nicely put together is as accurate.  the amazing thing is the second friend does not take very good care of any of his firearms.  the last time we went shooting his AK was rusted shut, he kicked the bolt open, cycled the action a few times and went to work on the cans we were setting up as targets.

the AK, a truly remarkable design.

[Suave]

Those are about 12 inch groups at 100m you are showing. Two inch groups at 200m, I'd have to see that to believe it.

[Suave]

Well if you are going to youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

I've shot thousands of rounds through ak's mostly ak74s with red dot sights. But I'm not going to argue with somebody who knows so much about it.

[storch]

as a freehand shot, do they look like a lethal grouping to you?  from a bench I can hit a soda can at 100m most of the time with iron sights.  at 200m I can hit a man sized target center of mass every time.  I never shoot further than 200m without a scope and neither of the AKs that are available to me are scoped.

given my druthers I would take the AK over the M16 simply for it's unquestioned reliability.  I don't own any military arms but I do own a ruger mini-14 in 5.56mm which serves the same purpose an AK would and is probably as rugged and reliable.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Suave
Those are about 12 inch groups at 100m you are showing. Two inch groups at 200m, I'd have to see that to believe it.

I also showed you a 1 inch group at 100m/y. With the AG-3 (Norwegian H&K G-3) I shoot half-inch groups at 200m so the AK is definitively less accurate, but I would have no problems shooting head-shots with it at 150-200m with a proper optical sight and hand/barrel support. And I'm only the third-best shot in my platoon.