Questions

[Rich46yo]

1, As a fighter stick what bomber/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to fly against? All other things being equal lets say.

2, As a bomber stick, and with all else equal and not including the 262 or 163, what fighter/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to be coming at your bombers?

3, Whats the most effective single thing can a bomber stick do to successfully defend against fighters?

4, What single thing can a fighter stick do to successfully attack bombers?

5, Whats the biggest reason bomber sticks die against fighters?

6, Whats the biggest reason fighter sticks die against bombers?

                            Thank you...and ........Rich

[sgt203]

#2. Anything with cannons or a Jug.

#3. Keep the fighter from gaining a considerable alt/E advantage.

#4. Hit the cockpit quickly killing the pilot.

#5. Getting a patient pilot who is willing to work for the proper advantage prior to engaging buffs.

#6. Attacking without decent advantage from the 6 position.

 I have no opinion on #1

[RTHolmes]

1 at alt B24 - speed, plenty of ammo, ball turret. at low-level B26 - even more speed and ammo.

2. Typhie/Tempest - speed and the 4x Hispanos are devastating

3. alt, alt, alt. and get some alt while your at it.

4. co-alt and lots of speed slashing attack.

5. not enough of 3. or SA.

6. sitting on a formations 6 oclock.

RT

[RTHolmes]

hmmm I'm amending no. 4 to:

4. Take your time. Plan your attack, set up each pass properly and dont rush it.

[ColKLink]

to me, b-17's seems the toughest to drop regularly. I rarely fly a bomber, but one thing ive done with regularity is run outta tail gun ammo, Im a bit trigger happy. Dang ball rurret gives me vertigo, and a sore neck (what doesnt)

[thndregg]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
1, As a fighter stick what bomber/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to fly against? All other things being equal lets say.
B17/B24 50 cal. turrets. Sometimes if I'm not careful, the 20mm cannon on the Ki67.

2, As a bomber stick, and with all else equal and not including the 262 or 163, what fighter/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to be coming at your bombers?
Typhoons have an effective gun package. 190's do, but the rounds drop off sooner, requiring them to get close.

3, Whats the most effective single thing can a bomber stick do to successfully defend against fighters?
Get lots of alt, and take the scenic route if you have  to get to target. Pick your shots, quick bursts, conserve ammo.

4, What single thing can a fighter stick do to successfully attack bombers?
As Lusche and Simaril would probably tell you, have patience. Come in from up high. ALWAYS use B&Z tactics, stay fast. In B17's and B24's, I do well in the ball turett, so GET CLEAR quick after you've made your pass.

5, Whats the biggest reason bomber sticks die against fighters?
Lack of ammo conservation. Overall course of flight in relation to enemy con traffic (including alt).

6, Whats the biggest reason fighter sticks die against bombers?
Hang on my six too long and you'll find out!
                            Thank you...and ........Rich

[RTHolmes]

Originally posted by ColKLink
to me, b-17's seems the toughest to drop regularly. I rarely fly a bomber, but one thing ive done with regularity is run outta tail gun ammo, Im a bit trigger happy.

thats why i prefer the 24 to the 17 - i'll sacrifice 500ft/s climb and a few extra 250lb for the extra ammo any day

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
1, As a fighter stick what bomber/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to fly against? All other things being equal lets say.

I dread the Ki-67

2, As a bomber stick, and with all else equal and not including the 262 or 163, what fighter/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to be coming at your bombers?

More important than the number of guns is the way they are used, though more firepower creates more problems (eg 190A8)

3, Whats the most effective single thing can a bomber stick do to successfully defend against fighters?

Altitude, altitude, altitude!

4, What single thing can a fighter stick do to successfully attack bombers?

It's not a single thing, but the most imortant is: Angles!

5, Whats the biggest reason bomber sticks die against fighters?

Poor planning.

6, Whats the biggest reason fighter sticks die against bombers?

Greed.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
1, As a fighter stick what bomber/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to fly against? All other things being equal lets say.

B-17 although by only a slight margin over the B-24.

2, As a bomber stick, and with all else equal and not including the 262 or 163, what fighter/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to be coming at your bombers?

In order from best to worst:  FW190-A8 with 2x30mm, 2x20mm, 2x7.9mm, BF110G-2 with 2x30mm, 4x20mm, Tempest/Typhoon with 4x20mm Hispanos, Ta152-H with 1x30mm, 2x20mm.

I guess Germany was compelled to build good buff hunters.

3, Whats the most effective single thing can a bomber stick do to successfully defend against fighters?

Get high.  The higher the better.

4, What single thing can a fighter stick do to successfully attack bombers?

Come from above.  Thus the reason for getting high defensively.

5, Whats the biggest reason bomber sticks die against fighters?

Poor gunnery/SA

6, Whats the biggest reason fighter sticks die against bombers?

Poor tactics.

[Stoney74]

1.  B-26 seems to give me the most trouble.  Although I usually have an altitude advantage coming in, I almost always leave with oil on the cockpit.

2.  For guns, obviously the Mk108 is the most devastating, but the A8 performs so badly, and the 110 and 109K4 take damage too easily.  For my money, I prefer the Jug's 8 caliber 50 because it also brings you the altitude performance and damage absorption.

3.  Stay level and concentrate on working the guns.  Fire only at close range (800 or less) in order to both bait the fighter into thinking you're asleep, and improve your hit chances.  Last, have the patience to climb to a high altitude, at least in excess of 18K.

4.  In the Jug, its all about an extremely high six approach--almost a vertical dive into the formation.  Lead in front of the targets nose until with 1000 yards or less, then let your aim drift to the wing root.  This approach makes lead for the gunners extremely difficult, ensures you will pass behind them as you blow through (and not collide), and you will avoid pilot wounds as you keep the engine between yourself and the guns.  If I'm flying an 190A8 or other planes with cannons, its pure slashing attacks from the flanks.  Run in on the front quarter, firing as you slide behind.  Let the cannon do the work for you.

5.  Low altitude.  If I have a 2-3 thousand foot advantage on you (or more), you're dead meat.  If I have to climb up to you, I have to be patient or risk getting hosed.

6.  For me, I get hit most when I make my approach too shallow.  You never want your dive to stabilize behind the bombers--you become a sponge at that point.

[Rich46yo]

Thanks guys. Im constantly reviewing my tactics and planning. More opinions would be even more welcome.

                       Im at a point where Im spending almost all my time in 26s or KI-67s. Thats how much Ive learned to value speed, even an extra 15, 20, or 30 mph is huge.

                     I would rate the 17 as the toughest bomber. The 24 isn't as tough, and flames to easy, but it has an extra 200 rounds in the tail. It also doesn't maneuver as well as the 17.

                  The 26's weak point is its belly. The KI has the same problem but its so fast it doesn't suffer as bad. I found a way toi deal with it but it aint the same as having a belly turret.

                The Tempest and Hurri are both deadly not just cause of their firepower but also because they are tough.

                  Not sure I can add much but here are my answers.
1, Id have to say the B-26.

2, Any tough fighter with a 4+ cannon package. I would also have to add the 190 and not just cause of the airplane, but also because, of the guys who spend a lot of time in it.

3, Always know where the sun is. Dont hang on a target to long. Take evasive exits from targets. Keep and maintain a fairly decent level of Alt. Do anything you can think of to throw a fighter off his groove, "thats for another thread". Use your weapons most effectively vis-a-vis the particular fighter your fighting. If your being ganged then turn, turn, turn, and then turn some more. While your at it grab fast alt, or dive, or do anything crazy when being ganged by several cons.

4, Dont try and do to much with one pass. Yesterday I gladly sacrificed a drone KI-67 for a 262 cause the stick hung up while coming in from the side. I turned hard into him and he hung up trying to kill all 3 KIs in one pass. I only needed him to hang one second with that 20mm top cannon, and that cannon can hit from all kinds of angles when you roll the airframe. I'll also add "to that "fly bombers" too"! Lusche is a very dangerous Buff hunter but he didn't learn it by flying fighters. He learned it by flying bombers. I can tell by his approaches that he could only have learned these weak spots by actually spending time in the bombers. Probably a lot of time.

5, I'd say poor planning. Like in coming into heavily defended targets at 5,000'. I'll add to that however that I go into front line targets and do take some thumps, "I give some too". But I'm not about to spend an evening bombing targets where theres no action. I like gunning far more then bombing. I'll also add, "not utilizing your waist gun enough". Waist gunnery is very effective, and mind you Im just starting to really learn how to use them.

6, "Greed", thank you. The guy who said this is the opposite of greedy and he'll pass on a slash that doesn't form up like He wants. Ive only seen him make one mistake and that had nothing to do with greed.

                    Do keep talking guys. When it comes to the bomber/fighter war in AH I am one great big sponge.

[Stoney74]

Not quite off topic, but something I feel is an important consideration:

One of the factors of the MA that's often overlooked IMHO, is that Bombers represent the true offensive firepower for the land grab.  Sure, you can pork the radar with a fighter, perhaps even deack a field with one, but you can shut a base down with bombers, very quickly I might add.  3 or 4 formations of bombers can wreak a field in one pass, and do it from altitude safe from the ack and (usually) interceptors.  Add an equivalent amount of escorts that know the role, and you've got what is typically an unstoppable force.  Unfortunately, not many folks employ tactics consistent with this.  The typical land grab mission is nothing but Niki's and 110's and suffer at least 50% casualties.  But I suppose that is acceptable to the "Quake" crowd.  IMHO, is should take no more than about 10-12 folks to take a defended base, and bombers are the hinge-pin.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
1, As a fighter stick what bomber/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to fly against? All other things being equal lets say.

The ones that can point and click at you from 1.5K out.

2, As a bomber stick, and with all else equal and not including the 262 or 163, what fighter/gun package would you consider to be the most dangerous to be coming at your bombers?

30mm, but after I am out of ammo and they get close nuff to take a shot.

3, Whats the most effective single thing can a bomber stick do to successfully defend against fighters?

point and click

4, What single thing can a fighter stick do to successfully attack bombers?

Leave them alone or hot them on the runway

5, Whats the biggest reason bomber sticks die against fighters?

Fall asleep or the clickie thingie broke

6, Whats the biggest reason fighter sticks die against bombers?

Laser guns that kill from over 1K out and the amazing  point and click ACM

[Karnak]

You whine too much dedalos.  Not to mention make stuff up.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by dedalos

Laser guns that kill from over 1K out and the amazing  point and click ACM

No such thing in game. At least not more "lazer" than fighter .50 cals.