so what do you do?

[Nilsen]

All points are valid to some extent depending on were you live.

Muggers are not armed here so why should I be.

How well armed they are elsewere I dont know, but i still think the chanses of things ending badly are greatly increased if you try drawing a gun rather than giving it up and walking away but thats just me.

I just get a rise out of trying to get lazs to pull his "socialist" trump card as many times as i can whatever the topic. I usually succeed within one or two posts.

[moot]

Nislen if you are carrying but don't have a chance of survival if you pulled out your weapon at a given moment, then it's a no-brainer that you don't pull out said weapon.  That doesn't exclude the possibility of carrying.  
It is better to carry than not. Better safe than sorry.  Pascal's wager is analogous.

Another run-in my dad had with guns happened in some underground parking lot in France.  He was walking to his car when someone held him up at gunpoint.  All he had to give them was his beeper.  
The muggers walked away with it, from what I apreciated from my dad's description, borderline disgusted they'd risked pulling out a gun for nothing - i.e. they were about to shoot him for not having anything worthwhile to give them.

How does the above situation warrant not carrying a gun?  It doesn't.
He could have shot them as they turned their back to him (convinced he wasn't carrying), which would've possibly saved other lives later in time, but that's another ethical debate.

[sgt203]

Originally posted by Nilsen
All points are valid to some extent depending on were you live.

Muggers are not armed here so why should I be.

How well armed they are elsewere I dont know, but i still think the chanses of things ending badly are greatly increased if you try drawing a gun rather than giving it up and walking away but thats just me.

I just get a rise out of trying to get lazs to pull his "socialist" trump card as many times as i can whatever the topic. I usually succeed within one or two posts.

Nilsen,

          You have a valid point if you live in an area, or country, where the general public doesn't have ready access to concealed weapons (pistols) then in fact you have little need for a firearm.

        Common sense should always take precidence over valor ( as was stated before) if you have little to no chance of survival by attempting to use a firearm obviously DONT.

        However conversely if involved in a situation where bullets are flying at you and all you can do is pull out your hand with some skin on it, you are going to find there is another use for Depends other than incontinence:lol

        Honestly if I lived in a country where hardly anyone was armed, I probably would not be armed either. However I dont and firearms are a part of the culture of the United States.

        Thus I am a product of my environment

[Leslie]

I would like to add that in the United States, need is determined by the gun owner and not by the government, unless there are circumstances where someone should not own a gun..



Les

[lazs2]

I think that a lot of you guys are suffering either/or from "euro syndrome" or "young healthy male myopia syndrome"

euro syndrome is that you are in a tiny little country where everyone looks just like you and the crime rate is low.

the young man one is simply the myopic thinking that you are young and strong and therfore... everyone who ever is in a bad situation will be young and strong and male too...  heck... you may never have been in a fight in your life but... you have seen movies and heck... you work out!  

You have never met a real bad guy..  even at my advanced age.. I bet I could kick the crap out of some of you who think "they can take care of themselves"   I don't fight fair.   I know I could take any of you if I could pick two guys to help.

So myopic guys says... "If it looks bad I will just run away or give em everything"

What if you can't run or what if they are just feeling mean?  Not everyone is a world class sprinter like yourself.  What about your wife?  what about the guy with a bad leg?  what about the 70 year old dad?   Would you... do you.. tell your wife that if someone wants to rape her she should just give em what they want?   Do you know how brutal (even to death) some rapes are here?

Tigress said socialist because.. it is the socialist who thinks that he can tell others what to do.   It is the socialist who feels that society trumps individuals and that they can take away rights... Until it is them who is being attacked.

It does no good to say that you would kill to protect your own if you have taken away everyones (including yourselfs) right to have the tools to kill..

Anyone who would seek to take away my right to defend myself is not just some socialist in a debate of civilized men... he is a mortal enemy.

lazs

[lazs2]

KGB asked if I thought it was better if everyone was armed.   I think it is better if everyone who wants to be armed and has a basic (simple thing really) grasp of the mechanics and safety and laws is allowed to do so.

I think that there can be laws against carrying openly but that concealed is a good thing.   I would also point out that if you gave everyone the opportunity... some states do.. to carry guns concealed... only about 10% would and only about half the time... even tho it is very simple and cheap to do so.

Still.. this would be a tremendous deterent.   On in ten at the mall... one in ten at an event.  Criminals here fear armed citizens...study after study has shown this to be true.   If they know that one in ten is armed.. they are more polite.. they shift from personal crime to property crime.   I can live with that.

I would rather they ransack my house when I am gone than I have to shoot em.. sure... I would/have been.. angry.. but better that they fear people and go after property.

A mugging is not like that tho.. they get off on the power trip.. the helpless victim.. rapes aren't like that.. sometimes.. they don't like the way you are looking at em or your color or they just feel like hurting someone.

So yeah.. I do believe that having the bad guys fear the people is a good thing.

lazs

[Neubob]

Originally posted by lazs2
  Would you... do you.. tell your wife that if someone wants to rape her she should just give em what they want?  
lazs

Very eager to hear the response to that one.

[midnight Target]

Oh for crying out loud...

Fun with statistics.. lazs' numbers are intersting, but unfortunately all wet. Of course he also likes to be specific enough with his allegations so that they are provable even though they don't prove his point.

"You are more likely to be attacked or mugged than you are to be in a wreck where a seatbelt would save you."

Then he compared total attacks to total deaths in auto accidents.

When he should have compared total attacks to total accidents, but wait. That still begs the question... what is his point?

[SteveBailey]

See Rule #5

[SteveBailey]

tell your wife that if someone wants to rape her she should just give em what they want?

*deleted... not nice*

[gpwurzel]

I'm with Laz - I dont think everyone should be armed - but I do think we should have the capacity to be armed if so desired. Controls are in place to hopefully weed out the unstable (which would rule me out - but I dont desire a weapon anyway) - if they were only applied correctly and stringently.

I'm not going anywhere near the wife/children conundrum - my answer would probably get me png'd.


Wurzel

[Rich46yo]

See Rules #4, #5

[Getback]

Another name for that monger is elitist and a very sick one at that. I get so tired of some maroon just randomly killing people just for showing up to work, going shopping, or stopping for gas. They are the true cowards in our society.

A lady on my side of town was killed randomly about a week ago and all she did was stop for gas. It tugs at my soul. She left behind 2 children and a husband.

[lazs2]

mt... what about the seatbelt thing did you not get?   you are far more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than you are to ever have a seatbelt save your life.   I am talking total numbers or per capita... your choice.

Heck.. I am all about choice.   don't get angry because the numbers don't work out for you...

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Tigeress, i doubt you understand the word "socialist"
Someones "political" views are more left-sided so this
person would not protectand fight with every weapon
to protect his family?

big error, political views have nothing to do with what you asked for.

She is a self-identified Socialist... from her own lips.

I read her self-identification two ways... either she is a full blown communist or an extreme lefty.

Since her politics and mine don't agree she and I don't discuss politics.

She is free to think however she wishes as am I.

TIGERESS