109 Advice needed

[Muttley]

Well I'm new to this game, playing a few months now. During this time, I've been trying out all the the different planes that interest me. I thought the hellcat was going to be my favorite ride. That was until I discovered the 109f this week. I'm really loving this plane. I read the reviews of the 109's on Soda's page, but some of the information seems a little out of date.  So what kind of advice do you 109 sticks out there have for someone wanting to learn this plane?

Thanks.

[Lusche]

Don't discard Sodas writeup. The only thing in it that is really obsolete are the comments on armament (as you know now single 20mm with 200 rounds and no gondolas) and appearance. Everything else that's written there about climb, speed, maneuverability and how to be successful in it still holds true.

[Obie303]

First off, Welcome to AH 2!  As far as Soda's evaluations, they are a great help.  After a year, I still go back there from time to time.  

I'm by no means a pro in the 109's.  I do like to fly them from time to time.  The F model is one of the best 109 turners and can mix it up pretty well in the MA.  The only real disadvantages (IMO) are its not too fast, so you're not going to be able to outrun or catch too many others.  Secondly, the MG ammo is only 7.9 mm.  

On the other hand, the WEP is great and you have a lot of it.  Almost 10 minutes if I recall.  And if you're into saving perk points, the F is a great plane for that in the MA.  I prefer the G-14 or the K in the MA.  (This tour, I've gone back to the P47D-40 though)  The 30 mm in the K does take practice to aim.  Practice is the key there.

Keep flying different planes.  I find that I get the most out of my flying time when I try and learn a new ride.  I would also recommend coming here to the BBS and asking for advice or going to the TA and asking for help if you run into some problems.  There are many great people here that are always willing to help out.  (A few dinks too, but ignore them.)

Good luck and hope to see you up there some day.
Obie:aok

[B@tfinkV]

find a guy named Lengro in the TA or DA and he will teach you some about 109s. I've been flying with him for many years now and i have found only a few others with quite the same skill in ALL the 109s and such a great love for flying them.

[FBplmmr]

Originally posted by Muttley
Well I'm new to this game, playing a few months now. During this time, I've been trying out all the the different planes that interest me.I thought the hellcat was going to be my favorite ride. That was until I discovered the 109f this week.  I'm really loving this plane. I read the reviews of the 109's on Soda's page, but some of the information seems a little out of date.  So what kind of advice do you 109 sticks out there have for someone wanting to learn this plane?

Thanks.
 

Blasphemy!!

[Muttley]

Thanks for the advice.  Sodas site is great , as I've learned so much from reading all the reviews.  Now when I'm up against a certain plane, I find myself thinking back to what I read about how to beat it.  Doesn't always help me, but at least now I've got some idea as to what to do and not do. Sorry FBplmmr. I still think the Hellcat is a great fighter. It was the first fighter that I tried where I felt confident to take on anyone.  It surprises me that more people don't fly it.

What kind of convergence settings do people recommend? In the 109F4, I'm getting in real close before I open up. I've got all my guns set at 200 right now. Had no problems taking down P-47's that way. Should I set both out more, or maybe just the mg's.

Thanks again...

[Lusche]

As convergence setting depends not only on weapon attributes but also on personal preference & playing style, you may just leave them at D200 if you feel comfortable with it. Especially as you write that you usually get real close before firing.
And eith a pure nose mounted set of weapons, convergence hasn't the same importance as with wing mounted guns.
I have set mine to D350, but I have done this in all planes, except for 30mm guns and Hurri & Spit I .303's.

And when fighting in a 109F, I fire only the 20mm.

[WWM]

Agent is pretty darn slick also.  Good guy willing to help:aok

[goober69]

so a question
if say you fly a plane with nose mounted mg and cannon.
your cannon rounds will hit lower than mg rounds
can u set ur cannons further so that they both hit at the same point?

like maybe setting mg at 350 and cannon at 400 or 375 so they hit the same place>?

[Lusche]

Originally posted by goober69
so a question
if say you fly a plane with nose mounted mg and cannon.
your cannon rounds will hit lower than mg rounds
can u set ur cannons further so that they both hit at the same point?

like maybe setting mg at 350 and cannon at 400 or 375 so they hit the same place>?

No - If you set them at the same distance, they will converge at the same point. The effect that they do this at slightly different times due to different muzzle velocities can usually be neglected.

You can always check yourself influence different convergence settings have on bullet patterns. Use the .target dot command when flying offline or in Training Arena ( eg ".target 400" to set a target 400yds north of your plane)

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Lusche
The effect that they do this at slightly different times due to different muzzle velocities can usually be neglected.

I would say that is a matter of personal preference.  I have my 20mm set longer than .50 cals due to the types of shots I set up.  I also have a similar setup on the 109k4

Goober, as Lusche explained, technically 2 different gun packages set at the same convergence will arc through the centerline of you piper at the same range.  However, differing muzzle velocities will have them arrive at that range at slightly different times.  This becomes an issue when you are firing on a moving target, because the target may no longer be there when the slower rounds get there.  So you can do as you said and set nose cannons longer to account for that effect.  But it is a matter of splitting hairs, and either method of setting convergence can be made to work effectively.  Like I said, personal preference.

[Muttley]

So let's say I have my mg's and cannon set to 350.  Now I find myself taking a shot that only 200 or less.  Will I need aim farther ahead of the target than I think to get the cannon rounds to hit?  As I'm picturing it, the cannon rounds are getting lofted up more to compensate for the lower velocity.  So wouldn't setting
the cannon out farther then the mg's only make a short range shots harder?
I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around this issue.

[Murdr]

Yes, in a straight line shot, depending on the range, that could mean aiming a bit lower for cannons.  My personal style finds me more often having deflection shots, where a large lead needs to be pulled.  That is where it is handy to have the cannon trajectory elevated a little bit so both weapon types can hit, rather the the slower weapons missing behind the target.

I'd suggest expirementing with the lead computing site.  (I recently posted how to enable it in this thread).  The neat thing with that is, you get a marker showing the correct lead for each weapon type.  And you can fly different gun solution scenarios on the offline drones, and see how much the lead can differ between MGs and cannons.

[Spatula]

Im no 109 experten, but when i fly the 109s, I tend to ignore the MGs all together and only fire the hub cannon. Simplifies the whole process and you only have to 'learn' one trajectory/muzzle-velocity combo, not two and how they inter-relate. This is espcically true with the 30mm 'tater' gun. All you need is one hit and if you are only firing taters, when you see a hit sprite, you know they will go down. If you fire both, you see hits, but due to net lag you have to keep firing to ensure it wasnt just a MG ping. Net-lag will add about 200-300 milliseconds between the hit sprite you see and you seeing the damage it causes. Fire only taters, and all hit sprites are all but 100% certain of a kill, so you can stop when you see a sprite and go on your merry way.

Your milage may well vary...

[Rolex]

(The .target command is available in all Main arenas, not just offline or Training Arena.)