Wiki-Combat flight simulator

[Murdr]

I was poking around wiki, and read this entery.  Obviously the quality of wiki varies greatly, and some poorly rated enteries are actually very in depth and well written.  But I was shocked to see this one rated as Star class and High priority for such a crap article.

History

The earliest version of Microsoft Flight Simulator (1982) had crude graphics, simple flight models – and a combat option, with "dog fighting" in a World War I Sopwith Camel. This feature was removed in the simulator after v4.0, though the Camel itself remained as one of the standard aircraft for some time.

The early 1990s saw several rival publishers such as NovaLogic with titles like the Comanche Series that simulated helicopter combat and later Jane's WWII Fighters which had small features that the Microsoft titles lacked, such as more detailed visible damage.

The genre is popular today with many titles specialising in certain types of aircraft or historical periods or wars with Microsoft remaining one of the market leaders.[citation needed] Microsoft currently has three combat flight simulators: Combat Flight Simulator WWII Europe Series, Combat Flight Simulator 2 WWII Pacific Theatre and Combat Flight Simulator 3: Battle for Europe. However, after Combat Flight Simulator 3, Microsoft has abandoned combat flight simulators and now focuses purely on civilian flight simulators. Ubisoft is now the leading publisher in the genre with the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series, the first of which was first released in 2001. The IL2 series has been routinely updated and is currently available as a "complete" series with the release of IL2 1946 on DVD. A move that extends the life of the franchise. This latest version incorporates all previously released versions. Ubisoft did not offer owners of the previous versions an upgrade option. These users, in order to take advantage of online play, had to re-purchase the series on the DVD as the DVD version is not compatible online with previous versions.

Wow, Combat flight simulation centered around MSFS, and oh, by the way, other software houses got into it 8 years later?

Types

Combat flight simulators are usually classified according to their historical period, type of aircraft, level of detail (survey is less detailed than a study type) and single- versus multi-player.

Survey

Many of the historical combat simulators are classified as "survey simulators", because they include a variety (or survey) of aircraft from the period in question, typically from all nations participating in the conflict. Early simulators often suffered from flight models and instrument panels that differed little between aircraft, but more recent examples have excelled in this regard, forcing the virtual pilot to learn the carefully modelled strengths and weaknesses of the various types (e.g. the different fighting and flying styles of a Spitfire versus a Messerschmitt 109 in IL-2 Sturmovik or a Mitsubishi Zero versus a US Navy F4F Wildcat in Combat Flight Simulator 2). There have been modern jet survey simulators as well (US Navy Fighters by Jane's/Electronic Arts 1994, USAF by Jane's 1999) typically with simplified and generic modelling of radar, navigation, and weapons.

You've got to be freaking kidding me?  More recent equals what? 15-20 years ago?

Here is the lead definition- "Combat flight simulators are video games similar to flight simulator software used to simulate military aircraft and their operations. These video games are distinct from dedicated flight simulators used for military flight training which are far more complex and consist of realistic physical recreations of the actual aircraft cockpit."

Then the rest of the artical goes on to ignore the driving force that the multi-player genre of combat flight simulators played it the development of the topic.  Combat was an afterthought of many flight simulators, and were at times well behind the curve on actually simulating combat when compared to its multi-player contemporaries.


This artical is pure c-r-a-p, crap.

Just thought I would point it out in the event that someone who is actually knowledgable about the topic want's to improve it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_flight_simulator

[Ack-Ack]

Minor changes were made to the article for accuracy.

The genre is popular today with many titles specialising in certain types of aircraft or historical periods or wars with Microsoft remaining one of the market leaders.[citation needed] Microsoft currently has three combat flight simulators: Combat Flight Simulator WWII Europe Series, Combat Flight Simulator 2 WWII Pacific Theatre and Combat Flight Simulator 3: Battle for Europe. However, Microsoft Combat Simulator is a joke of a flight sim due to the unrealistic scalibility of the flight model. Ubisoft is now the leading publisher in the genre with the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series, the first of which was first released in 2001. The IL2 series has been routinely updated and is currently available as a "complete" series with the release of IL2 1946 on DVD. A move that extends the life of the franchise. This latest version incorporates all previously released versions. Ubisoft did not offer owners of the previous versions an upgrade option. These users, in order to take advantage of online play, had to re-purchase the series on the DVD as the DVD version is not compatible online with previous versions.

ack-ack

[FrodeMk3]

Murdr, remember, it IS WIKI. Do you remember when we had the voting on the B-25 for AH, when all the planes' on the list were still contenders?

There was quite a row on about the G.55. Gianlupo had quite a bit of info for it. Well, he started to directly edit it into Wiki, causing much consternation.

You could go back and edit this Wiki article, and point out that MMOG Flight sims' usually have a free downoad, and 2 week trials'. At that point you could throw in the 'superiorority' of a game like AH over MS CFS2. Then, sit back and watch the poo fling.

Edit: Wow, Ack, fast on the draw!:lol

[Murdr]

Oh, I know how it works.  I am used to composing in bullet-proof mode, and even then, you have to be versed in the wiki policies, to start tossing them around when using the (undo).  Thing is, I have more immidiate, AH related stuff to do.

To be a good article, it actually shouldn't push "superiority".  However, this one is clueless to ignore the role multi-player sims like Red Baron, Air Warrior, and later Warbirds made in rasing the bar for air combat simulation in general.  Accurate simulation of air COMBAT, was a low priority afterthought to MS before the multi-player sims not only showed the market, but also outpaced them in the simulation parameters that were needed to do more than simulate flying from point a to point b.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Murdr
I was poking around wiki, and read this entery.  Obviously the quality of wiki varies greatly, and some poorly rated enteries are actually very in depth and well written.  But I was shocked to see this one rated as Star class and High priority for such a crap article.

The point behind Wiki is to allow everyone to help produce the information and cross check the given info with sources.

If you know the information is correct, well then correct it. It's fairly simple thing to do. If your info is true and can be verified then it will stay there.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by Murdr
Oh, I know how it works.  I am used to composing in bullet-proof mode, and even then, you have to be versed in the wiki policies, to start tossing them around when using the (undo).  Thing is, I have more immidiate, AH related stuff to do.

To be a good article, it actually shouldn't push "superiority".  However, this one is clueless to ignore the role multi-player sims like Red Baron, Air Warrior, and later Warbirds made in rasing the bar for air combat simulation in general.  Accurate simulation of air COMBAT, was a low priority afterthought to MS before the multi-player sims not only showed the marked, but also outpaced them in the simulation parameters that were needed to do more than simulate flying from point a to point b.

CC. Kudos' to you, for keeping your objective point of view.

If you know the information is correct, well then correct it. It's fairly simple thing to do. If your info is true and can be verified then it will stay there.

The problem is when Wiki is assaulted by Fanboi's. Free-editing, and a subject that solicits' an unbalanced bias, are a bad combo.

[Angus]

I first flew a computer flightsim in 1981. My first H2H through 2 computers was in 1984. Anyone here that was doing this around that era?

[Arlo]

My first "flight sim" (heh):



First head to head combat flight sim for me was:


Mig Alley Ace - Microprose for C64 (1985)

The C64 and game were owned by a squadron buddy and it was a split-screen cockpit pov. He never could understand how I knew when to evade. (heh)

I played around with Falcon (1985) but push button air to air didn't "do it" for me:



(Air Warrior came out that same year but I didn't discover it until Air Warrior II)

Gunship (87) was a bit more interesting:



Then came Battlehawks 1942 in 1988:



Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (1990):



And the immersiveness factor kicked up a notch.

Back to AWII (1997):



The answer to a couple of decades of daydreaming as far as I was concerned.

Now Aces High II - the best experience I've ever had in a person to person combat flight simulator to date.

[soda72]

Originally posted by Arlo
Now Aces High II - the best experience I've ever had in a person to person combat flight simulator to date.

So does that mean you're going to fly in AHII again?

[Arlo]

Every night in my dreams.

Erm .... that's the plan.

[soda72]

Originally posted by Arlo
Every night in my dreams.

Erm .... that's the plan.

Well here's a link to a great C64 game that can tide you over, until then....

potty pigeon

[Arlo]

Not enough sheep.

[soda72]

Originally posted by Arlo
Not enough sheep.

Graphics are so old the cars might pass as sheep...

[LePaul]

Heh, I still have a few of my old PCs in my basement.  A few nights ago I unpacked and fired up the 486 DX2 66 and flew Chuck Yeagers Air Combat    Boy I wish that would be re-visited and re-made for today's systems!

[Angus]

My first was Psion's Flight Simulator for the Sinclair ZX 81 in 1981.
Blind flying, and it worked, - it would teach you the instruments.
I hacked it and converted it to a bombing sim