Author Topic: <insert blood curdling wail>  (Read 1552 times)

Offline Simaril

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« on: November 11, 2007, 02:20:30 PM »
I've been using my first home built machine for about a year now. Haven't had any major problems, and in fact fewer difficulties than with any machine before (maybe because it made me give up on the mostly useless tech support!)

So I've got a little cash laid by, and decide to do a little upgrade tweaking. I bought 2 more 1GB sticks of PC6400 DDR2-800 Crucial RAM (exact same product as already installed), and I got an IDE 160GB second hard drive to use for manual backups.

Neither has integrated into the system properly, and I have no idea why. Overall I'd consider myself a moderately competent amateur from a tech standpoint, but I've been baffled here.

Problem #1 - Although Setup boot panel sees 4GB, the system only sees 3GB when XP up and running. (Checked several ways, including control panel and My Computer/properties general panel.)


Problem #2 - Hard drive #2 generally is invisible. My Computer, and administrative tools/computer management/ disk management, simply don't see the drive except for a few inexplicable times.

Problem #3 - The DVD drive has disappeared from the system under some connection regimes, and although I can see why sometimes, other times I have no idea.

To keep things clean, I'm posting the system specs in a second post...so if it would help in understanding the narrative, check out the post below.

Not much to say about the memory. It worked in my son's computer just fine, and ran there with 2GB showing. Always shown 3GB in my system, as far as I know. No heat problems, and as I said the Setup/BIOS software sees 4GB.


The hard drive has been a problem since upgrade day one.

First pass was with a bare OEM hard drive that I'm almost positive was defective, and I returned without problem to Newegg. (This was before current hard drive -- telling what happened for diagnostic purposes) My motherboard has two IDE style connectors, one labeled  "PRI EIDE", and the other a "PRI IDE." When I used the EIDE one, connected only to the new hard drive, I could see the new hard drive but not format it. The DVD drive was connected to the IDE connector, at the ribbon's terminal connection, and worked fine. In the past, I'd found that the DVD drive will not operate properly connected to the EIDE motherboard connector. The IDE cable I used was one out the parts bin.

So I made sure things were all on cable select, I used the master connection for the DVD drive on its ribbon, put the IDE hard drive on another EIDE connector, and finally can see the DVD drive. Unfortunately, the new IDE hard drive drive was recognized as a SCSI device, even though its not one. I couldn't  access it, couldn't format, and couldn't see it on "My Computer". On hardware properties, it showed up with its identifying model number but with that darn SCSI identification. When I used the same ribbon for both the DVD and the hard drive, the computer had trouble recognizing either, regardless of whether I used jumpers for master, slave, or cable select.


At that point went to Administrative tools and tried to format the thing, but while it would allow format to 99% as soon as it reached 100% it balked and errored "Unable to Format." Always happened that way, and since all else seemed OK I assumed it was a bad drive and sent it back to Newegg as said.


So, now to the current events. I ordered a new drive, and got a round "IDE ATA 100/133" 80 pin cable to make sure the parts bin ones weren't cheapie DVD ribbons with fewer actual wires.

In short, never got anything to work with the new cable. Went back to the old generic ribbons, and could get the DVD to show up if the IDE drive was unpowered. Tried cable select, and had problems with boot -- the system kept asking me to insert appropriate boot media, even though neither were supposed to be boot drives. Switched cable positions, same result Tried making both slaves by jumpers, and neither worked. Tried making the entirely blank hard drive master, and the DVD slave, and the DVD wasnt visible.

But with this setting, ON THE FIRST BOOT ONLY, I was able to see the new drive, but only on Administrative Tools. It first showed up as an unformatted drive, so I selected and formatted it as a NTSF drive. Failed the first time, but completed the second and was thereafter described as "healthy". I thought problem was solved...

Except the DVD was invisible, and unusable. (Its my only removable media drive). I powered down, thinking I'd be fiddling again, but then decided to do a whole drive mirror backup while I had the new drive working. I restarted, and...well....found that the new drive was again invisible, this time permanently. I rebooted several times and never saw the sucker again. Mind you, there had been NO changes at all between the successful run and everything that followed.

Again popped the case, tried a few more ideas, and eventually gave up for the day. I had to unpower the new hard drive, and use the slave ribbon connection with the DVD on cable select.

I did not try the EIDE connector on the new drive, the one that read the first drive as SCSI, partly because I dont understand the difference and partly because I've never had anything work right connected there. (At the initial build I'd tried the DVD drive there and the system wouldnt acknowledge it properly.) Also, its at the extreme far side of the motherboard, with the only video card position just inside there -- and its ALMOST impossible to get to the connector or to get the cable to pass over the card and still reach the DVD drive in the case's lowest slot.
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2007, 02:36:55 PM »
Hardware Installed:

MoBo ASUS P5W DH Deluxe LINK
RAM:       Now 4x 1GB of PC6400 DDR2-800 Crucial RAM LINK
Video Card:       HIS Radeon X1900XTX 512MB      
Drives:      LG 16X CD-ROM IDE DVD Burner
Sound Card:       Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum sound card
Operating System:   MS Windows XP – Pro        
Power Supply      Antec TruePower 2.0 TP2-550

New Hard Drive:   Seagate Barracuda 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 LINK
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 02:42:27 PM by Simaril »
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

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Offline NHawk

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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2007, 03:17:17 PM »
The 32bit version of XP doesn't use or see more than 3gb ram. It's always been that way. So there's no problem there.

Did you try going into bios and manually configuring the drives?

Looking closer at the specs, there are 2 ATA connectors with up to 4 devices. So, that's not the problem. If the problem persists, why not get a different drive and use your SATA connections.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 03:30:57 PM by NHawk »
Most of the people you meet in life are like slinkies. Pretty much useless, but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
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Sometimes I think I have alzheimers. But then I forget about it and it's not a problem anymore.

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2007, 03:30:19 PM »
Actually, it doesn't see more than 4gb of SYSTEM-WIDE RAM. If you have a 512MB video card and a 128MB sound card, you can utilize at most 3456MB of RAM. Other little bits and chunks will take away from that, too.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2007, 03:37:01 PM »
Next time get a S-ATA hd to avoid these problems.
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Offline Ghosth

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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 08:03:32 AM »
Sim

On the new drive, did you Partition it so it can be formated?

Myself I tend to use Western Digtital drives, and once its installed boot up with the WD utilitys, install, sets what kind of drive its going to be, ie fat 32, nt, etc.

Once thats done and you've exited then you should be able to reboot, see and format it. Once thats done you should be able to install into it or use it.

I Could be wrong but I think you missed a step in there.

Like everyone else said XP only goes to 3gig of system memory.  Personally I'd leave it at 2 gig of ram.  Your not going to get the full use of 4 gig without switching to vista. In which case you'll wish you had 8 gig.  Better IMO to leave it in XP with 2gig.

Offline Getback

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 03:31:26 PM »
Had a thought, but it was way off.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 03:57:48 PM by Getback »

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2007, 03:33:47 AM »
There's no reason not to install 4 gigs on xp32. You get dual channel memory and maximum available ram (3,5 gigs or so) which is 1,5 gigs more than 2 gigs.

That will last for a loooong time.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2007, 06:41:55 AM »
Ghost--

The drive shows up on BIOS, but isnt recognized by the OS. I checked at the Seagate website but they don't have a bootable setup software -- they use the XP setup system.
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

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Offline NHawk

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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 07:17:05 AM »
Ahhh..."They use the XP setup system"...

Right click on the My Computer icon on your desktop and select Manage.

In the window that comes up, on the left hand side under Storage select Disk Management.

In the right hand bottom window, locate your new drive, right click on it and select Initialize Disk. If the system can't see the drive at this point, there is something wrong with the drive, cabling or settings in bios.

After drive is initialized, look at the bar at the bottom right of the Disk Management screen; it represents the new drive and it should display the size of the hard disk and the word “Unallocated.”

Right-click the new drive and select New Partition. This should start the Partition Wizard.

Select Primary Partition and click Next.

Specify the partition size. The easiest choice is to just click Next; this uses the entire drive as one large partition.

Once you're done assigning partitions, format them.

Once you're done with that, you should be good to go.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 07:41:37 AM by NHawk »
Most of the people you meet in life are like slinkies. Pretty much useless, but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
-------------------------------
Sometimes I think I have alzheimers. But then I forget about it and it's not a problem anymore.

Offline Roscoroo

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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2007, 09:24:18 AM »
how are the drives hooked up ?


are they all on ide ? Sata ?, or a combo of both ?

Next ? would be ... How are there jumpers set ?

you will need master/slave combo for the hard drives.

Next.
 for the cd/dvd  cable select if its solo on a ide /sata or if theres more then one then either a master /slave or a master/cable select setting is needed .


Now the drive that needs formated you may have to use a win98 boot disk or another  hd manufaturers boot/format disk . or another way would be disconect your primary hd and install the new one in its place , now run your xp cd and format it.(dont install xp just do the partition /format)
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2007, 02:27:19 PM »
NHawk:

Doesnt work. The XP system doesnt recognize the drive at all, so the Disk management and so forth shows only the primary, functioning SATA drive. Because windows doesnt show it, I can't set partitions or format. Hence the problem.

As noted, the drive does show up under BIOS.




Roscoroo:

The Primary hard drive (a SATA drive) is actually auto-detected as Primary IDE 3, as a master drive, in BIOS. It is the first boot disk. The new drive is autodetected as Primary Drive 1 under BIOS. It is an IDE. The SATA has no jumpers, and the IDE new drive is set as cable select...and is in the first connect position, which makes it master over the DVD drive on the same cable.

Could the entire problem come from mixing the SATA and IDE drives, since SATA has no jumpers?

Very interesting idea -- if nothing else works, I will try to disconnect the SATA and boot from windows disk.
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2007, 03:13:15 PM »
I'm running a SATA Master and IDE Master on Channel 2 right now. Try taking it off Cable Select and making the hard drive master, DVD drive slave.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2007, 06:12:59 PM »
When I've done that, the DVD disappears -- and its my only removable media
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2007, 06:30:58 PM »
Hhhmmmh...well, can try giving the hard drive it's own IDE channel if you have another open space and a cable.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.