Author Topic: Astrophotography / Telescopes  (Read 1036 times)

Offline trax1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 01:28:35 PM »
Tac or anyone else here, I have an interest in space, I got a telescope about 3 years ago, The one I have is this one telescope.  I've used it a few times but I've had a hard time understanding just how to use it to see the things I want too.  It has an eye piece that turns  to different settings, and it has these attachments that I have no idea how to use, 1 is called a "1.5X Erecting Eyepiece" and the other is "3X Barlow", so you guys seem to know quite a bit about telescopes so I was hoping that someone could give me some pointers on how to use it properly.  I'd like to use it to see one of the planets, like the rings of Saturn, Jupiter, or Mars.  So I'd really appreciate it if someone could give me some tips, thanks.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 01:33:15 PM by trax1 »
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline flakbait

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 867
      • http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 01:51:06 PM »
Check http://www.astronomics.com for good deals on scopes & such. They've got a 10" Dob by Celestron for $500. Not bad considering it lists for $1,000. The majority of their stock is Orion (low-price scopes) and Celestron (medium price), with a good stock of Meade (higher-end). Though if you want to build your own from the optical tube up, you could start out with a Takahashi reflector. Make sure someone has smelling salts handy; Takahashi prices might make you pass out.



------------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 02:11:04 PM »
Boy the Meade DS-2102MAK 4" go-to Maksutov-Cassegrain looks great for the money.

Thanks for the link, Flak.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8600
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 02:59:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
Boy the Meade DS-2102MAK 4" go-to Maksutov-Cassegrain looks great for the money.

Thanks for the link, Flak.


That looks like a fun little scope, but I would mention thats only 4" of aperture.  And since its a Mak it also has a central obstruction for the secondary mirror so its not even a clear 4" of aperture like a refractor.
Resolution is directly proportional to aperture.  So the image scale and possible magnification of that scope would be pretty limited.  If you notice they only list it as recomended for lunar and terrestrial photograhy.  I assume because it doesn't have enough resolution for the smaller planets.  And with less than 4" of aperture, deep sky observing would be very challenging.

That doesn't mean you CAN'T take a picture of Saturn or Jupiter with it, but your result would be limited.

Still, if you just want a beginner scope to throw out on the patio for a quick peek, it looks like a fun scope.

$0.02,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8600
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 03:37:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by trax1
Tac or anyone else here, I have an interest in space, I got a telescope about 3 years ago, The one I have is this one


Trax1,

For beginner observers or photographers I always suggest starting with the Moon.  It would be hard not to be able to find the Moon.  Its big, its bright, it has a huge amount of high contrast features.  It gives you something easy to find and look at while you learn about using your equipment.  You can figure out how to control an position your scope, how to track an object, learn what eyepieces work best, how much magnification you can get away with, how to focus. There are a lot of interesting features to find and learn about on the Moon.  More than people usually think.  Checkout LPOD.Org and look for their Lunar 100 list.  That should keep you busy for a while.

You might also check these out:

1
2
3

If you have a specific question, I'll try and answer it.

Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline trax1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2007, 03:57:57 PM »
Thanks, these sites look like they're gonna be very helpful.  Do you know much about telescopes?  I mean do you think the one I have is powerful enough to see the rings on Saturn?
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline ChickenHawk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1010
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2007, 04:04:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
That looks like a fun little scope, but I would mention thats only 4" of aperture.  And since its a Mak it also has a central obstruction for the secondary mirror so its not even a clear 4" of aperture like a refractor.
Resolution is directly proportional to aperture.  So the image scale and possible magnification of that scope would be pretty limited.  If you notice they only list it as recomended for lunar and terrestrial photograhy.  I assume because it doesn't have enough resolution for the smaller planets.  And with less than 4" of aperture, deep sky observing would be very challenging.


As the owner of a 4" scope, I can say that AKWabbit is giving you good advice.  Had I known all this years ago, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on the scope I did.

If I could convince the wife to let me get another scope, I'd get the biggest aperture I could afford.
Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence, fear, ignorance or stupidity, because there are millions more garden variety idiots walking around in the world than there are blackhearted Machiavellis.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8600
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2007, 04:18:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by trax1
Thanks, these sites look like they're gonna be very helpful.  Do you know much about telescopes?  I mean do you think the one I have is powerful enough to see the rings on Saturn?


The scope you have is a pretty modest aperture but you should be able to see the rings of Saturn fine.  The image won't be large.  But you should be able to clearly see them.  

I would use your zoom eye piece (the one with different settings).  You'll want to start out at its lowest magnification.  (what do the markings say?  is it 8-16mm or 100x to 50x?)  Get it focused and then start zooming in the magnifications a bit at a time and refocus each time.  At some point you'll see that you've reached a point of diminishing return where the magnification isn't worth the extra blurriness.  Then back it off just a bit.  You might get all the way down to the 8mm setting.  Frankly, I wouldn't bother with your barlow lens.


Your biggest problem is going to be able to find and track Saturn.  Learn you constellations a bit and look at Astronomy or Sky and Telescope magizine for that month and see when Saturn is going to be up.  (I think around Feb its going to be closest to Earth this year)

Again, I start on the Moon to learn how to point your scope and track to keep a feature in view for several minutes.  You need to learn how to align your finder scope with the main scope so you can get close with that before going to the eyepiece.  


The particular type of mount you have is going to make it a challenge to keep it in view at high magnification but it can be done.


Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17775
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 04:27:21 PM »
Posted this in another thread on space pictures a while back.

Seemed like a pretty interesting project

Making an Astro Cam from a Webcam
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2007, 10:27:49 PM »
my head hurts.

Offline flakbait

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 867
      • http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2007, 01:32:59 AM »
Okay, Tac, take a look at this place: http://www.sjaa.net/beginner.html They have more info than you can shake a stick at, and generally explain things very well. Especially read the Advice to Beginners from the Company Seven site, and the How to Pick a 'Scope from Astronomics site. Warning The Company Seven link on the above page is LONG, but packed with great info.

LePaul, you're welcome!



-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2007, 12:05:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChickenHawk
As the owner of a 4" scope, I can say that AKWabbit is giving you good advice.  Had I known all this years ago, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on the scope I did.

If I could convince the wife to let me get another scope, I'd get the biggest aperture I could afford.


Wabbit and Chickenhawk (this sounds like a Looney Tunes episode!)...

Good points, I'll keep shopping.  My last scope was a beginner one with wing nuts for tracking.  For $100 more, I couldve had motorized tracking.  So I appreciate you saving me some hassles from the get go!

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2007, 12:18:03 PM »
One other question..what CCDs do you like?  I've reading a lot about the Meade's on that site.  Im noticing a lot of monochrome?

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8600
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2007, 04:13:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
One other question..what CCDs do you like?  I've reading a lot about the Meade's on that site.  Im noticing a lot of monochrome?




Well, that's another complicated question. :)

It again depends a lot on your intended purpose, as well as your level of seriousness.


Basically let's divide it into two camps.  Cameras optimized for Solar, Lunar, and Planetary photography; and cameras optimized for dim dark fuzzies like Nebula, Galaxies, and star clusters, etc.  For short let's call these genre Planetary and Deep Sky respectively.

For planetary cameras, you need something to help you beat the blurring effect of the undulation atmosphere.  Imagine looking at a perfect photograph of a  planet that is sitting on the bottom of a swimming pool with kids making waves at the other end.  The waves will be constantly shifting, blurring, and distorting the picture your trying to look at.  This is very like trying to look at a planet through our planets thick atmosphere.  On a longer exposure, the undulations and distortions average together during the exposure and create a blurred result.  What you want to be able to do is take an exposure of a fraction of a second to catch a moment in between the waves when the image is undistorted.  The problem is this short exposure is going to cause the image to be very grainy and noisy.  However, if you take hundreds or thousands of short exposures and use software (Registax) to sort thru them and find the sharpest ones and "stack" them.  This stacking increases the signal to noise ratio enough hide the grainyness.  

So you want an inherently low noise camera that can take 10-60 frames a second for possible several minutes.  There are some high end cameras for this purpose like the Lumenera Skynyx models.  Very nice.  Very pricey.  However amateurs have found they can get really excellent results with modified consumer webcams (a favorite is the Phillips Toucam).  They have been modified by unscrewing the built in front lens and screwing in an adapter that lets you insert the camera like an eyepiece (See scopetronix.com is one source).  You'll capture the 2-5 minute AVI's to a laptop or desktop and later use freeware like Registax to do the magic of sorting and stacking.  There are also models like Meade's LPI and I think Celestron has one.  I have an LPI.  Its not bad.  Has some really nice software.  But It doesn't do as well as my old Toucam in my opinion.
I also have a monochrome Skynyx.   Its VERY sweet.  It dang well ought to be for the price!

There issue between monochrome and color is mainly due to two factors.  1. Monochrome ccd chips tend to be a bit more light sensitive.  2. because of the way a color chip must fit detectors for all 3 colors in the same realestate, the same size chip can have ~30% less pixels (resolution).  To get optimal performance, some people choose to go with monochrome chip for the resolution and take three sets of images using different colored filters (RGB) and combine later with software.  I wouldnˇ¦t go this route originally.  It's a pain.  For your fist camera, I would go with a color model.


Next, Deep Sky....

 

Wab
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 04:26:57 PM by AKWabbit »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline LePaul

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7988
Astrophotography / Telescopes
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2007, 12:15:13 AM »
That's some excellent information

I thank you for taking the time to share.