Author Topic: Uh OH!!!!  (Read 1839 times)

Offline wrag

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Uh OH!!!!
« on: November 16, 2007, 02:49:43 AM »
More tools put into place for a very large HAMMER?

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58728

This does NOT look good for freedom, liberty, etc..........


and this just in..........

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58696

so much for the oath to uphold the Constitution?
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Tiger

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 08:46:49 AM »
OK... you have problem with the military helping out in the event of a Deomestic emergency?

With the restructuring of the military 30 years ago that made it so that the National gaurd would always be deployed in any large scale conflict...  chances are the states wouldn't have enough Gaurd members at home to call on.  

Following Katrina I saw the 82nd Airborne trucks heading that way day after day coming through here heading to New Orleans.  I figure if the Ferderal gov't deploys the Gaurd troops to overseas combat, they should haev to fill teh gaps with active duty units.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 08:51:23 AM »
what conceiveable emergency could exist that we would need the military involved?

please give examples cause I can't think of a one short of invasion.   anything less than that and the government is the invaders.

lazs

Offline Dichotomy

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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 08:58:03 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

youtube Naomi Wolf

Don't know if I completely agree with her but it certainly moved the brain cells around a bit
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Offline Bluedog

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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 09:43:23 AM »
Every soldier I have ever met was at least as familiar with how to operate his shovel/ digging in tool as he was his personal weaponry...... good shovel handling skills are hard to come by in large numbers at short notice.
Need a thousand men with a shovel each? Who you gonna call? Why not the local Army barracks, at least you know the guys they send will be physically up to the task.

Down here the military is routinely heavily involved in any emergency relief situation.
Soldiers filling sandbags for levy banks are a  common sight in places where floods are a problem.
As is salt lickblocks and bales of hay being dropped to marooned livestock from the back of C-130s and Caribous.
Or people being evacuated from their roof by Blackhawks and Hueys.
Army engineers and their heavy equipment are invaluable in a lot of emergency situations, like clearing highways and rail lines after a cyclone, laying temporary pontoon bridges where floods have made the usual route unpassable etc.
Oil spills, storm beached ships, ship wrecked  round the world sailors....will all see heavy involvement by the Navy.

IMHO, having that sort of equipment and manpower available and NOT using it is  just senseless.

As a by-the-way, it also makes for an excellent  training and response time evaluation exercise for the units involved, trying men, machines and logistics setups under highly stressful real world conditions....all on the same pay they would have got for sitting back at barracks doing nothing. Win-Win situation.

Protecting and serving your nation and people doesn't always involve guns and bombs, sometimes a strong back , a helping hand and a can-do attitude goes a long way further in maintaining national security than an aggressive stance and shouldered weapon ever could.

How can all those extra helping hands and equipment be anything but an absolute Godsend in an emergency?

Offline Thruster

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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 10:12:59 AM »
It can be argued that the federal response to Katrina is the best justification for not employing military resources as first responders. Not that there weren't isolated moments of individual heroism and even a successful group effort....or maybe two.

If we learned anything is that the military is not designed nor are the people trained for domestic emergency tasks. They are specifically tasked for military operations (or should be). That's what I prefer they concentrate on.

Short of a Mexican/Canadian invasion I prefer to keep our soldiers's attention focused outside our borders and their weapons pointed at our enemies.

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 11:15:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bluedog
Every soldier I have ever met was at least as familiar with how to operate his shovel/ digging in tool as he was his personal weaponry...... good shovel handling skills are hard to come by in large numbers at short notice.
Need a thousand men with a shovel each? Who you gonna call? Why not the local Army barracks, at least you know the guys they send will be physically up to the task.

Down here the military is routinely heavily involved in any emergency relief situation.
Soldiers filling sandbags for levy banks are a  common sight in places where floods are a problem.
As is salt lickblocks and bales of hay being dropped to marooned livestock from the back of C-130s and Caribous.
Or people being evacuated from their roof by Blackhawks and Hueys.
Army engineers and their heavy equipment are invaluable in a lot of emergency situations, like clearing highways and rail lines after a cyclone, laying temporary pontoon bridges where floods have made the usual route unpassable etc.
Oil spills, storm beached ships, ship wrecked  round the world sailors....will all see heavy involvement by the Navy.

IMHO, having that sort of equipment and manpower available and NOT using it is  just senseless.

As a by-the-way, it also makes for an excellent  training and response time evaluation exercise for the units involved, trying men, machines and logistics setups under highly stressful real world conditions....all on the same pay they would have got for sitting back at barracks doing nothing. Win-Win situation.

Protecting and serving your nation and people doesn't always involve guns and bombs, sometimes a strong back , a helping hand and a can-do attitude goes a long way further in maintaining national security than an aggressive stance and shouldered weapon ever could.

How can all those extra helping hands and equipment be anything but an absolute Godsend in an emergency?


Sounds good, if they are deployed in the U.S. all of them are unarmed, I have no problem with that.

shamus
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Offline Tac

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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2007, 11:27:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
what conceiveable emergency could exist that we would need the military involved?

please give examples cause I can't think of a one short of invasion.   anything less than that and the government is the invaders.

lazs


Well Lazs, think Katrina ... or if Mt. St Helen blew up again.. or if a tsunami hit hawaii.... there's also a 9/11 scenario.

The problem in some of the above scenarios is that military response (not national guard) is slow because of the ridiculous beaurocracy (however you spell that) that needs to go through before a single army unit can be ordered into action. For domestic emergencies the US military is like FEMA for all practical purposes. Heck the MEXICAN army beat the US military in bringing relief during the Katrina emergency.

The national guard on the other hand, can be called upon by local government and is more effective in getting people to the scene (altough they lack the resources of the active army).

I understand the reasons why it is a bad idea though.. merging the military with the country's leadership is a recipe for tyranny.

I would think it be better to have the active army be able to be called upon to SUPPORT of the national guard by the local government of each state.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 02:53:44 PM »
no.. I don't want armed military "helping" me with a katrina...

Besides..  how can they "help" if they don't have any free hands because they are holding automatic weapons?    

They want to help?  leave the uniforms and guns in the barracks and come as civilians.  

lazs

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 02:58:45 PM »
I can think of thousands of scenarios, both manmade and natural, where having the military on scene would be a very good thing.  I can also think of just as many where it would NOT be a good thing.  Case by case.  Thats my motto.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007, 03:10:16 PM »
"The Army is a broad sword, not a scalpel. Trust me, senator - you do not want the Army in an American city." - The Siege 1998.  It's not because the Army is evil, it's because their job is incompatible with domestic, non-battle work.  The military is designed to deal with enemies.  When the citizens become part of the problem, then you have citizens that are now considered enemies.  

As for the "but they could help!" argument...  Remember what the road to hell was paved with?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2007, 03:21:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
no.. I don't want armed military "helping" me with a katrina...

Besides..  how can they "help" if they don't have any free hands because they are holding automatic weapons?    


lazs


If you ever experienced any of the wildfires in Southern California, you'd be happy to see those US Marines on the front lines fighting those fires.  I know I sure was.


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Offline Tac

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Uh OH!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2007, 03:26:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
no.. I don't want armed military "helping" me with a katrina...

Besides..  how can they "help" if they don't have any free hands because they are holding automatic weapons?    

They want to help?  leave the uniforms and guns in the barracks and come as civilians.  

lazs


I never said the active military has to come in with tanks and f16's to assist with the aftermath of a natural disaster. What the active army does have is a signficant ability to move material and personnel (transport aircraft, helicopters, army trucks) and can have the GI rifleman come in with no weapons and help with the efforts. If they come as civilians they cant bring along all the hardware the armed forces has which is needed at the disaster area.

Offline Hornet33

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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2007, 04:34:11 PM »
This stuff has been in the works since Katrina. The reason being is all the bad publicity about how the federal government was so slow to respond with needed supplies and to help evacuate people before and after the storm.

Imagine Katrina if the feds had the ability to call up the military at a moments notice for use INSIDE the country. Thousands of trucks heading into the area hauling fuel, food, water, and personel before the storm hit to get people out. How many people died down there because they had no way out? The active duty components of the military can bring alot of heavy equipment and resorces to bear in a situation like that just on the logistical side of things. These are people that are trained to supply large groups of people on the fly.

In the case of Katrina with all the looting going on, who is going to keep the peace? The police left town. Why not bring in the military police? They are trained to handle law enforcement duties. Who's going to loot a store when you have a couple of soilders standing there with M-16's?

I see no problem with the military being called up for something like Katrina, or 9/11. The idea isn't to role in with tanks, APC's and Apache helicopters. It's to role in with trucks and alot of them filled with needed supplies, and personel to help the local population.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2007, 04:41:30 PM »
Hornet, what are your thoughts on the Posse Comitatus Act and the reason it was enacted?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis