Author Topic: Nice M4 Pic -- but what version? (Read 691 times)

Simaril · « **on:** November 16, 2007, 08:36:38 PM »

Wandering the net, came across this very sharp, nicely saturated photo from 1942. It's credited to Alfred Palmer for the War Information Bureau, and was taken at Fort Knox.

And here's my puzzle: The angle prevents us seeing the anterior armor and fittings, but it sure looks like there are 2 hull mounted machine guns, maybe in tandem. Of course, the Sherman we're used to has a single 50 cal there.

This may be easy for you subvariant armor experts, but it seemed interesting enough to me for posting. And even if you folks rip the answer off, I'm happy to share a nice pic.

Motherland · « **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2007, 08:46:56 PM »

Actually, there are four (if they are, infact, machine guns). Look closely.

Spikes · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2007, 09:19:08 PM »

This looked like one that would be in the "2nd line" of attack. Following behind the heavy armored tanks, they would saw down ground forces with their 50's?

Just my guess...

boingg · « **Reply #3 on:** November 16, 2007, 11:00:30 PM »

early version of m4a1 had radio operators .30 cal as well as 2 additional bow mounted .30 cals (fixed )

gewehr · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2007, 04:22:30 PM »

I believe it's an M3 Lee/Grant as shown by the 2 mg's and position of 75mm gun. Also, the shape of the turret is consisant with the M3.
The ventilator above the 75mm gun is positive proof of a cast hull M3. No M4's had a vent. right side hull.

Simaril · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2007, 05:15:53 PM »

Not an M3, bud. The contour of the side silhouette alone proves that, since the M3 series had a sharp rather than smoothly tapered outline. The main gun is depressed, which may be what's throwing you off...but if you look carefully, it's angled from the center of the tank to the right. The M3 75mm gun would need to be angled to the left to look like it was at the center of the tank, since the sponson was all the way to the right side of the bow. Lastly, the turret is centered, but we can't see the 37mm gun, which should be visible from the angle.

Blooz · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2007, 06:39:40 PM »

It's very early M4. Lend Lease Sherman at Bovington.

Cast hull, bolted nose and M3 style bogies with return roller on top (older M4's had it moved to the rear)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/M4_Sherman_prototype_Michael.jpg/790px-M4_Sherman_prototype_Michael.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:M4_Sherman_prototype_Michael.jpg&h=600&w=790&sz=92&hl=en&start=10&um=1&tbnid=E7B_ugPMNORaIM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbovington%2Bsherman%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Widewing · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2007, 08:03:35 PM »

This photo is in the Library of Congress collection. The caption reads: M-4 tank, Ft. Knox, Ky.

The photo is dated June 1942, and the photographer is Alfred T. Palmer.

It's obvious that it is a very early M4 or a prototype.

(edit: Use this link and type "Alfred T. Palmer, Fort Knox" into the search engine.)

Here's another B&W Palmer image of an M4 (welded upper hull, cast lower hull) with the twin guns in the front glacis:

Finally, another M4 with a welded upper hull and a bolted lower hull.. Twin .30s in the hull too...

My regards,

Widewing

SuBWaYCH · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2007, 08:05:36 PM »

The Great WideWing has spoken!! We must bow before his will.

*bows*

Regards,
Subway

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2007, 12:24:21 PM »

Just in case you all didn't know, when a incoming shell hits a rivet, the rivet accelerates to bullet-like speeds inside the hull. Thats the main downfall in having anything riveted in an AFV.