Author Topic: Croatial rifle  (Read 2100 times)

Offline red26

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1030
      • http://www.red25s.zoomshare.com
Croatial rifle
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2007, 02:56:13 PM »
What F.A. were you with and on what arty. pice????
US ARMY LEAD THE WAY

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
Croatial rifle
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2007, 04:12:56 PM »
155 towed, the units don't exist anymore. I'm very very old.

Offline red26

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1030
      • http://www.red25s.zoomshare.com
Croatial rifle
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2007, 08:29:03 PM »
155 towed is still around seen it a few times. I was with 1/33 FA Charlie Batt. MLRS tracked system  in my last two yrs, in Bamberg Germany miss it too. well ya old gun bunny dont worrie im a rocket jockey my self LOL
US ARMY LEAD THE WAY

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Croatial rifle
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2007, 09:48:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shaky
The most recent Bayonet Charge


Gotta love them British Highlanders!

Really? I never even knew the L85 had a bayonet lug.

Offline Viking

  • Personal Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2867
Croatial rifle
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2007, 12:37:10 AM »
I don't think you'll find a battle rifle or full length assault rifle in service anywhere that hasn't got a bayonet lug. A spear is just as effective in close combat now as it was 10,000 years ago.

Offline SIG220

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 694
Croatial rifle
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2007, 01:17:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Motherland
Really? I never even knew the L85 had a bayonet lug.


It indeed doesn't have one.

The L85's bayonet has a hollow handle, that is designed to fit over the muzzle of the rifle.   That is the way that it is attached, which is incredibly lame, in my opinion.

Here is a photo of the bayonet:




SIG 220

Offline SIG220

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 694
Croatial rifle
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2007, 01:35:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
I don't think you'll find a battle rifle or full length assault rifle in service anywhere that hasn't got a bayonet lug. A spear is just as effective in close combat now as it was 10,000 years ago.


I seriously doubt that the German Lieutenant Endriss who led the bayonet charge against a single lone man: Alvin York, on 10/8/1918, would agree with you.

Contrary to the depiction in the Sergeant York movie, US Army investigators found 21 .45 ACP shell casings at the spot where York said he mowed down the bayonet charge.  York had emptied a total of 3 magazines from his Colt 1911A1 pistol into the on-rushing German soldiers.  

Not a single one ever got close enough to stab York.  They all perished in the attempt.

This is clearly mightier than the bayonet:


 


SIG 220

Offline croduh

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2509
Croatial rifle
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2007, 03:42:14 AM »
Video of rifle in action.Also you can see that there is a shield around the trigger.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oWqbKhCzZv4

Offline Viking

  • Personal Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2867
Croatial rifle
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2007, 10:34:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SIG220
I seriously doubt that the German Lieutenant Endriss who led the bayonet charge against a single lone man: Alvin York, on 10/8/1918, would agree with you.

Contrary to the depiction in the Sergeant York movie, US Army investigators found 21 .45 ACP shell casings at the spot where York said he mowed down the bayonet charge.  York had emptied a total of 3 magazines from his Colt 1911A1 pistol into the on-rushing German soldiers.  

Not a single one ever got close enough to stab York.  They all perished in the attempt.

This is clearly mightier than the bayonet:


 


SIG 220



If you have to charge at the enemy you are not in close combat. 10.000 years ago a single archer could have done the same.

Offline Viking

  • Personal Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2867
Croatial rifle
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2007, 10:40:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by croduh
Video of rifle in action.Also you can see that there is a shield around the trigger.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oWqbKhCzZv4


That looks nothing like the pictures you posted. That just looks like like an FAMAS clone. :huh


Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Croatial rifle
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2007, 01:19:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SIG220
It indeed doesn't have one.

The L85's bayonet has a hollow handle, that is designed to fit over the muzzle of the rifle.   That is the way that it is attached, which is incredibly lame, in my opinion.

Here is a photo of the bayonet:


 


Interesting engineering solution %)

As a close combat weapon - a needle bayonet is better, 3 or 4 sharp edges (don't know how to say it correctly) as on Russian rifles.

As a multi-tool this is no quite usefull too. AK bayonet is used as a wire-cutter with a sheath. This one has another special wire-cutting part.

How about thermal tempering? Does the handle work as a muzzle-compensator?

AK bayonets are made from over-hardened steel, hard to sharpen and easy to break. People say they are good only for opening tin cans.

And if there is a way to lose something - a warrior will lose it ASAP. Now knife-bayonets are used as a "weapon" for military patrols because it's silly to arm cadets or enlisted soldiers with firearms in the city, usually only an officer has a pistol.

Offline croduh

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2509
Croatial rifle
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2007, 02:12:13 PM »
There seems to be confusion, there are some very different pictures of the rifle on net.
The one in a movie may look more similar to FAMAS but take a closer look:
cartridge, butt, handle, things between the handle and barrels, etc.
I am still not sure what pics should represent the final version, or even if there are various version?

Here are some more pics:


Offline Excel1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 614
Croatial rifle
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2007, 06:41:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
As a close combat weapon - a needle bayonet is better, 3 or 4 sharp edges (don't know how to say it correctly) as on Russian rifles.


i think you mean the spike bayonet

they aren’t much use on a civilian rifle but the chicom type 56s ak clone came with a cheesy knitting needle.. err spike bayonet, that was only useful for finishing off stubborn beer cans during plinking sessions

edit: almost forgot to say, you got to drink the beer first coz not only is it a scientific fact that booze makes you shoot straighter it also puts you in the right frame of mind for doing stupid stuff with a bayonet
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 06:59:02 PM by Excel1 »

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Croatial rifle
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2007, 07:08:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Excel1
i think you mean the spike bayonet

they aren’t much use on a civilian rifle


I wanted to go to bed, but now I'll think of a bayonet useful on a civilian rifle o_O

Quote
Originally posted by Excel1
but the chicom type 56s ak clone came with a cheesy knitting needle.. err spike bayonet, that was only useful for finishing off stubborn beer cans during plinking sessions


Spike bayonets are harder to break,  easier to extract, and leave bad wounds. In 1854 British soldiers with Russian bayonet wounds were brought not to a hospital, but directly to the cemetery. OTOH Russians had a very special bayonet training, hitting a little downwards and then lowering the gun before taking the bayonet out. (hard to explain)

Offline SIG220

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 694
Croatial rifle
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2007, 09:00:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
If you have to charge at the enemy you are not in close combat. 10.000 years ago a single archer could have done the same.


If you think think that even the most modern bow today, ( much less an ancient relic of 8,000 BC ), can be fired as fast as a modern handgun, well, then you have obviously never used either weapon yourself.  

My own great great great grandfather killed 3 American Indians at close quarters in 1854 while on horseback with his then new Colt Navy model revolver.   The Indians were armed with bows and arrows, and also lances.  Despite having a 2 to 1 advantage in numbers, the Indians broke and ran.   Two other men from the armed party from their wagon train, also were armed with the new Colt revolvers.

A handgun can be wielded at far closer quarters than ANY long arm can be maneuvered.  Period.

Here in the United States, a famous football player this week tried to defend his home against intruders with a machete.   Problem is the intruder had a handgun.   And a machete can be used in much closer quarters than any long arm with a bayonet.

Guess who died in this incident???

The Bayonet is totally irrelevant to close quarters combat in modern day warfare.  

The urban combat that US troops in Iraq are currently facing is as close quartered as one can get.   Yet none of them are bothering to fix useless bayonets to their rifles.  Just check any of the thousands of news photos currently online showing American troops in combat.

SIG 220