Author Topic: Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc  (Read 874 times)

Offline SuBWaYCH

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« on: November 20, 2007, 09:39:52 PM »
Best site for turn radius, airspeed etc, etc

This is a great resource. Dunno if all the info is acurate, but I got a few things outta this site....
(All tests done with 0 flaps, and at 5,000 feet of altitude)

Comparison between Spit 5, 8, 9, 14:

Turn Radius.
Spit 9: 632 feet
Spit 5:503 feet
Spit 8: 568 feet
Spit 14: 639 feet

I had no idea the diffrence beetwen the 9 and 5 was so big....

Another test:

Comparison between Spit 16, LA-7 and NIK2-J:

Turn Radius.
NIK2-J: 610 feet
Spit 16: 567 feet
LA-7:617 feet

Wow.

Yet another:

Comparison Between P-47D11, P-47D25, P-47D40:

Turn Radius.
D-11: 757 feet
D-25: 818 feet
D-40 806 feet.

The D-40 turns better then the D-25.. hmmmmm

Just a few tests.

Regards,
Subway

EDIT: Very accurate, WW helped make it :)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:43:58 PM by SuBWaYCH »
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Offline Spikes

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 09:41:30 PM »
I already use it. :confused:
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Offline Motherland

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2007, 10:07:24 PM »
Ditto.

Offline SuBWaYCH

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2007, 10:08:19 PM »
Well, it was new to me...

Regards,
Subway
Axis C.O. for Battle of the Dnieper, Winter '43

Air superiority is a condition for all operations, at sea, on land, and in the air. - Air Marshal Arthur Tedder

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Offline A8TOOL

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2007, 10:18:25 PM »
Thanks for the info. I too use it but never took the time to organize the info as you have. If you have some more... post it.

Here is another site you might like reading.

http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm
Soda AH Aircraft Evaluation Website

http://www.71sqn.co.uk/hints.html
.:71 'Eagle' Sqn RAF An Aces High II Virtual Sqn:.

Offline Widewing

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2007, 10:39:20 PM »
It depends very much on the pilot who generated the test data. I have no trouble getting a Spit IX to a slightly smaller turn radius than the Spit VIII. The Mk.IX is simply lighter.

Most of the data was generated by Mosq. Most of it is accurate. However, when I do the same tests, I consistently get a smaller turn radius for the Spit IX and F6F-5. Sometimes, I think Mosq flies a bit too far into the stall, which  results in larger circles. But, don't think that it is easy to do this testing. It isn't. It's damn difficult. It's difficult enough that a minor slip or error can result in significantly different numbers. Which is why two or more tests are better than one. Three is even more reliable. Always take the best result. Why? because you can always make the circle bigger, but there is a finite limit on how small it can be. The smallest is always the more accurate measurement.

The methodology of the testing has been posted to the Aircraft and Vehicle forum several times. You need a stop watch, calculator and the ability to fly a fighter to its absolute limit and keep it there for three consecutive circles (I haven't seen more than a few who can do this, by the way). Then, repeat the test two more times and take the best results. Now, you must be able to do all of the above in every fighter.. That takes huge amount of time, and an equal amount of practice.

Here's something to consider. As a Trainer, I hear guys state that "no one can turn" their particular fighter tighter (a smaller circle) than they can. I like to get them into a flat, continuous turn (either left or right) and we start to tighten it up with this guy on my six. With very few exceptions, most guys find out that they were nowhere near the smallest possible circle. Within four or five full turns, they find me on their six. This is why I preach the need to know the true limits of their aircraft, which is often well beyond the limits of the pilots. Many duels are decided by one pilot being able to wring more out of a fighter than the other pilot can. All else being equal, the guy who fly right on the edge of being out of control, and do so without so much as a wiggle, he will win the fight. Like good SA and good ACM skills, plane control skills are vital to being successful.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Fruda

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2007, 11:04:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
It depends very much on the pilot who generated the test data. I have no trouble getting a Spit IX to a slightly smaller turn radius than the Spit VIII. The Mk.IX is simply lighter.

Most of the data was generated by Mosq. Most of it is accurate. However, when I do the same tests, I consistently get a smaller turn radius for the Spit IX and F6F-5. Sometimes, I think Mosq flies a bit too far into the stall, which  results in larger circles. But, don't think that it is easy to do this testing. It isn't. It's damn difficult. It's difficult enough that a minor slip or error can result in significantly different numbers. Which is why two or more tests are better than one. Three is even more reliable. Always take the best result. Why? because you can always make the circle bigger, but there is a finite limit on how small it can be. The smallest is always the more accurate measurement.

The methodology of the testing has been posted to the Aircraft and Vehicle forum several times. You need a stop watch, calculator and the ability to fly a fighter to its absolute limit and keep it there for three consecutive circles (I haven't seen more than a few who can do this, by the way). Then, repeat the test two more times and take the best results. Now, you must be able to do all of the above in every fighter.. That takes huge amount of time, and an equal amount of practice.

Here's something to consider. As a Trainer, I hear guys state that "no one can turn" their particular fighter tighter (a smaller circle) than they can. I like to get them into a flat, continuous turn (either left or right) and we start to tighten it up with this guy on my six. With very few exceptions, most guys find out that they were nowhere near the smallest possible circle. Within four or five full turns, they find me on their six. This is why I preach the need to know the true limits of their aircraft, which is often well beyond the limits of the pilots. Many duels are decided by one pilot being able to wring more out of a fighter than the other pilot can. All else being equal, the guy who fly right on the edge of being out of control, and do so without so much as a wiggle, he will win the fight. Like good SA and good ACM skills, plane control skills are vital to being successful.

My regards,

Widewing



Truth. This is why I manage to regularly get behind many La-7 pilots in my Yak-9U in such situations... Not to mention that many who fly the La-7 do so because they see it as a "beginner's plane", and really don't have much of a clue about what they're doing.

Nevertheless, it's good (nay, great) practice to test your aircraft of choice and see just how far you can take it, and just how far you can push yourself before you fall out of the sky.

Offline MrDick

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2007, 11:22:53 PM »
Aircraft turn the best (tightest, fastest) at their corner velocity.  

Each plane has a different corner velocity.  The turn data needs to include the speed at which the turn was performed to be meaningful.

Offline Bruv119

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2007, 12:33:15 AM »
the guy who posted that obviously can't turn a spit 9 for chit!


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Offline Avaro

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 12:46:43 AM »
Wow, Who needs graphs to turn?? :p
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Offline A8TOOL

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 02:12:29 AM »
So let me ask this. When in a flat turn and the stall buzzer starts to go off but I'm still in control of the plane am I making a tighter turn then if I did not push the plane to stall... or buffet?

it seems I may be making a tighter turn trying to stay out of stall

When doing a loop does the same apply?

Offline Urchin

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 05:44:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing

Here's something to consider. As a Trainer, I hear guys state that "no one can turn" their particular fighter tighter (a smaller circle) than they can. I like to get them into a flat, continuous turn (either left or right) and we start to tighten it up with this guy on my six. With very few exceptions, most guys find out that they were nowhere near the smallest possible circle. Within four or five full turns, they find me on their six. This is why I preach the need to know the true limits of their aircraft, which is often well beyond the limits of the pilots. Many duels are decided by one pilot being able to wring more out of a fighter than the other pilot can. All else being equal, the guy who fly right on the edge of being out of control, and do so without so much as a wiggle, he will win the fight. Like good SA and good ACM skills, plane control skills are vital to being successful.

My regards,

Widewing


This is actually true for a lot of folks I think.  I know I have absolutely no idea how hard I can "push" a plane into a Luftberry type turning fight, so I avoid them like the plague.  If I'm not gaining angles visibly after a circle or so, I'll leave and try to get back into nose to nose manuevering, because I am much better at that.

Offline BaldEagl

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Helpful site on Turn Radius, etc
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2007, 09:58:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by A8TOOL
So let me ask this. When in a flat turn and the stall buzzer starts to go off but I'm still in control of the plane am I making a tighter turn then if I did not push the plane to stall... or buffet?

it seems I may be making a tighter turn trying to stay out of stall

When doing a loop does the same apply?


You almost certainly are making a tighter turn inside the stall buzzer but it will also be a slower turn.  There's a point at which tightning the turn at the expense of speed actually reduces turn rate (time to get around 360 degrees).  It will all depend on the plane.
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Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2007, 10:02:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
This is actually true for a lot of folks I think.  I know I have absolutely no idea how hard I can "push" a plane into a Luftberry type turning fight, so I avoid them like the plague.  If I'm not gaining angles visibly after a circle or so, I'll leave and try to get back into a HO because I am much better at that.


Fixed.

 :rofl
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Offline Urchin

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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2007, 12:20:50 PM »
And you are...?