This is gonna confuse Mr No Name

[john9001]

Frostbitee, they all have a chance, they can enter the country legally.

[Frostbitee]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
A: If he is a great man, see my post above.

B: Most likely, he would sleep better if he had tried to do something to help the kids' mom. Seeing as now that since his dad is dead, and now his mom, Possibly thanks to his inaction, The kid will have to grow up with foster parents. (Unless of course, he has a close relative to help take care of him.)

Can you not read?

Her son, unhurt but disoriented, crawled out to get help and was found about two hours later by Jesus Manuel Cordova, 26, of Magdalena de Kino in the northern Mexican state of Sonora. Unable to pull the mother out, he comforted the boy while they waited for help.

He tried to help the mother as stated above, but could not. So he stayed all night with the boy, gave him his jacket, lit a bon fire until early morning when help arrived.

[Frostbitee]

Originally posted by john9001
Frostbitee, they all have a chance, they can enter the country legally.

I have never said I agreed that he broke that law trying enter illegal, I am stating he is  a great man to do what he had done and deserves a chance to live in our country legally. Do you feel he does not deserve to live here legally???

[Arlo]

For consideration:

"Conclusion

Under free trade, the U.S. and Mexico, as never before, share a common interest in keeping Mexico's workers in Mexico. Mexico's large pool of available, inexpensive and adaptable workers is its premier comparative advantage; for U.S. and other prospective multinational investors or importers, Mexico's labor reserve is the major attraction of a free trade agreement.  The United States has in addition an interest in shielding its own least skilled workers in vulnerable industries from the competition of imported workers at a time when free trade will cause disruption and displacement.

Restraint on low skilled immigration will also ease the competition of vulnerable American and settled legal immigrant workers for the public assistance and educational resources they will need to see them successfully through the transition. By insisting on high labor, safety and environmental standards in Mexico, particularly among those multinationals most likely to benefit in the American market, the United States would protect the long-term political acceptability of free trade among its own electorate; encourage democracy and a better quality of life within Mexico and neighboring U.S. areas and reduce incentives to emigrate; and ease the competitive burden on American workers by narrowing the production cost advantages Mexico gains from its unjustifiably low workplace and environmental standards."


Entire article:

http://www.cis.org/articles/1991/back491.htm

[Angus]

Originally posted by sluggish
Huh?  Sounds like you are trying draw attention away from the delecateness of your arguement by calling into question the "niceness" of the average American...

Why is what you describe as your imigration policy acceptable in your country but not in the US? Is it because the snow white purity of your nations heritage is too important to pollute?

I was pointing out that this "law breaker" reacted better than an average citizen.
As for immigration policy, my country belongs to a pool of available workforce which is THOUSANDS of time bigger than our own. That thought would probably send some chilling down on the average citizens spine in the USA....
So, the snow white purity (was this Jesus a black person? I recall hispanics mostly being caucasian), - well, we have to live with that. Snow white purity is slowly getting a tan

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
I think I do indeed see the big picture.

I know you do. That`s where you are wrong.

His crime as for today was merely the way he was getting there.

One of his crimes was that he was in our country illegaly. That`s where we can start. From there, who knows. There is no way for us to know since no documentation. There is probably no documentation of any value on crimes, if committed in his own country.
That is one instance that you certainly do not see the big picture on. There are illegal gangs here that are recruiting quite vigorously  here and have been for some time. They are wreaking Billy H on our country. Murders by the numbers, Extortion, kidnapping, rape......you name it. No documentation, no records that can be used. When one or a group is being sought for crimes , they simply blend or make a trip home for a cooling period while others carry on with the organization.
The sad part is, those that come here illegaly are not only causing big problems here , they are also taking away from their own country.
You say that illegals get no benefits from your country. Good for them. Illegals here get benefits and services for free that a lot of our citizens can`t afford.
People here are finaly waking up and are getting very tired of this situation. Changes are and will happen.
How many factions of MS would you like us to send you?

This guy is AFAIK not a criminal.

The guy became a criminal in our country the minute he lad foot on U.S. soil by entering illegaly. Big picture-1   Angus-0.

[Angus]

Tell me then, what would you consider as a suitable punishment for a person who steps over or walks past a person in distress?
As for this guy being a chriminal it's his character 1, Jacka1s character - 0

[SD67]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that what he did was a good thing.
What I think the basis of the whole argument is some folk think it entitles him to free citizenship despite the fact he was committing a CRIME at the time.
That in my opinion is exactly the same principal as letting the scumbag that comes in and strips your home bare of possessions be absolved of any guilt because he happened to help someone survive some other similar unfortunate ordeal while he was on his way home.

[moot]

Wow, and to think I was looking to get into a few tours of iraq or something to earn my citizenship... All I had to do was break the law and then play vigilante superhero to be not only absolved but get in front of everyone else that actualy got in line lawfuly.
I could even score some Icelandic booty with those ultra sexy humanitarian vibes.  Heck, I probably could run for president and win it too!

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
Tell me then, what would you consider as a suitable punishment for a person who steps over or walks past a person in distress?
As for this guy being a chriminal it's his character 1, Jacka1s character - 0

That law is in place here Angus. It doesn`t apply to him, in the reality of punishment, due to the fact he is here illegaly. He would just be sent home if caught on this soil and would be back the next day.
I`m here legaly. He was not.
I`ll take my character over his any day.
If he is such a damn saint there are more than enough to go around in his country who could use help, but when he steps on this soil illegaly, he is a criminal. Simple.
You are not living in and you are not a U.S. citizen. You speak with no authority and certainly do not grasp the situation.
Big Picture 2  Angus -2
Like I asked, how many MS factions would you like us to send you?

[moot]

And the whole christian good sheperd slant is bogus.  Not only is it not exclusive to christian livelihood, but it's not especialy religious, nor has he really forfeited further attempts at crossing over and spreading the message that wiping your wet behind with the law is well-looked upon.

Frostbitee, you're saying that some astronomical coincidence is tantamount to an extraordinary consequence of his will and nothing else, that without his good conscience in that situation the whole event would never have taken place, that anyone who wasn't there to do as much as he did (which is frankly nothing special) is less commendable for it, etc.

There's nothing racist about that: it's just common sense and would apply to anyone of any race or religion.
There's nothing selfless about this guy exploiting the corruption of politicians and employers to put himself at the front of the line while other people are patiently waiting whole freakin years to correctly integrate the US population.

[Frostbitee]

Originally posted by moot
And the whole christian good sheperd slant is bogus.  Not only is it not exclusive to christian livelihood, but it's not especialy religious, nor has he really forfeited further attempts at crossing over and spreading the message that wiping your wet behind with the law is well-looked upon.

Frostbitee, you're saying that some astronomical coincidence is tantamount to an extraordinary consequence of his will and nothing else, that without his good conscience in that situation the whole event would never have taken place, that anyone who wasn't there to do as much as he did (which is frankly nothing special) is less commendable for it, etc.

There's nothing racist about that: it's just common sense and would apply to anyone of any race or religion.
There's nothing selfless about this guy exploiting the corruption of politicians and employers to put himself at the front of the line while other people are patiently waiting whole freakin years to correctly integrate the US population.

I gather you are also from Mexico legally. Then you of all people should know how difficult it is obtain a visa from INS when you have no family in USA, zero education, and lack of financial funds.

Last time I checked we all bleed, cry and breath the same air. Which makes us all what? HUMAN. It is mankind who makes laws and names for what to call someone. You say anyone would have done what he did, wish that were true. This is a man entering the USA illegally. He could have gone to the vehicle, tried to remove the mother from the car, make sure the kid was warm and left. He chose to end his journey with knowing he was going to jail. Alot of US citizens would not do that.

My beliefs that god works in mysterious ways is not argueable by no means. A family is in the middle of a desert with a wrecked car and noone shows until 8AM the next morning to rescue them. This 9 yr old boy is wandering around disorientated for couple hours and just stumbles upon this man trying to enter the USA illegally. Do you think he stopped to say, "wait show me your a legal citizen?"

If you were in a accident and unable to pull yourself out of the car, a man comes up to offer assistance, you going to say, "show me your ID?" You have a child in the hospital in need of a kidney and the Doctor tells you they have a match from a child who entered the country illegally, you going to say wait, it is here illegally, take it back to Mexico? Seems conveniece is when one becomes human and not termed as illegal.

[lazs2]

god loved mexicans so much he named his only son after one.


Moot's point is far from....   It is the point.   There are many thousands of very useful and possibly heroic but at least.. good people who will help this country who are waiting to get in here..  they bust their butts to do all the right things and the restrictions are difficult.  they come in all colors and from all nations.

So why is it fair to let some a hole criminal in and not them?

lazs

[bongaroo]

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door


It was cool for all our past relatives to come take from the Natives, but now that others are showing up to the party they need to be (fill in the blank with your sick comments).  What good does kicking them out do anymore with all the jobs going overseas or down south anyways?

how about we switch to the fair tax, so we'll get their tax money whether their income is reported or not?

Glad he helped save the kid, the way some of you talk about other human beings I'd think the kid wouldn't have made it very long with you being near.

[Angus]

Originally posted by Jackal1
That law is in place here Angus. It doesn`t apply to him, in the reality of punishment, due to the fact he is here illegaly. He would just be sent home if caught on this soil and would be back the next day.
I`m here legaly. He was not.
I`ll take my character over his any day.
If he is such a damn saint there are more than enough to go around in his country who could use help, but when he steps on this soil illegaly, he is a criminal. Simple.
You are not living in and you are not a U.S. citizen. You speak with no authority and certainly do not grasp the situation.
Big Picture 2  Angus -2
Like I asked, how many MS factions would you like us to send you?

The "If he was a saint" is one point. He did try to sneak in, but flushed it because he had both character and nuts.
I speak of this with the authority of a free foreigner, from a nation who has freedom of speach, to a person who has no authority to tell me to STFU. Just a minute, didn't you defend the freedom of speech in case of Nazis?
Seems that some words are more free to be told than others.
I think there are many situations you do not grasp Jacka1....