Author Topic: USAF taking flying away from pilots......  (Read 801 times)

Offline Swoop

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« on: November 29, 2007, 10:29:50 AM »
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US Army plans robot planes operated by non-pilots

Pilots: 'This will set back robot planes for decades'

By Lewis Page

Military pilots are up in arms over US Army plans for substantial, powerful drone combat aircraft to be operated by mere mortals without wings on their chests.

The flying death machines in question are the US Army's new version of the well-known US Air Force Predator. The army's "Sky Warrior" version is a somewhat enlarged variant on the original Predator-A, though not as large and puissant as the Predator-B, aka the "Reaper". A Sky Warrior can carry much less ordnance than a Reaper.

 The thing that makes the Sky Warrior different is that it doesn't need a large operating staff of fully-trained human pilots. Ordinary Predators and Reapers are normally handled during landing and takeoff by a qualified pilot on the ground at their operating base in the theatre of war. While flying missions, they are controlled via satellite by different pilots who are normally in America. As the drone planes can stay up for very long periods, these pilots normally work in shifts, requiring even more personnel.

Far from making pilots obsolete, Predator and Reaper type systems actually demand more of them, and plenty of other support personnel too. This may be one reason why air forces - traditionally run by pilots - have been so tolerant of them.

But the US Army has no interest in having lots of pilots. It just wants aircraft overhead doing a job as cheaply as possible. Thus the Sky Warrior can land and take off automatically, and - it seems - will be handled in flight by people without wings on their chests at all.

The Sky Warrior programme is the point at which unmanned aircraft move from being remotely piloted to remotely operated, a key step along the road to being fully autonomous - true killer robots. (Software has already been demonstrated which can handle groups of drones to carry out complex tasks - eg, following a vehicle - with only minimal human supervision.)

Bill Sweetman, doyen of aerospace journalists, attended a recent conference in London on flying killer robots. Most of the attendees were air force types, and unsurprisingly they were angry and worried about the Army plans.

"We're allowed to be in civilian airspace, 1000 feet away from jumbo jets. Who's going to like a non-rated Army officer doing that?" one Predator pilot asked.

"In order to apply lethal force you should be a rated aviator," commented another, referring to the Sky warrior's potential to carry eight Hellfire missiles, each capable of destroying a tank. That said, other things can apply this level of lethal force; for example another tank, often commanded by a lowly, non-aviator corporal in the British Army.

Underlying the aviators' anguish, says Sweetman, is "a real concern that if the Army has got it wrong, a blue-on-blue disaster or a midair will set back the development of UAVs by decades".

Sweetman, a staunch friend of air forces everywhere in the eternal baiting and bureaucratic warfare among armed services, also noted that the only speaker at the conference who approved of the US Army plans was one from General Atomics, makers of the Sky Warrior. (Sweetman spoke himself.)

Of course, pilots don't always prevent disasters. Indeed, in a recent case involving the crash of a Predator-B operated by US Customs, a fully-trained pilot with thousands of hours in the air caused not only the crash but a serious crisis for local air-traffic authorities. It's hard to see how a specialist Army warrant officer would be any more likely to commit this kind of error.


It's also quite hard to see a natural pathway to general rank for such a specialist, of course. In the long term, it's hard to see how such a specialist - if situated in America, as is air force custom if not Army - would seriously need to be a uniformed serviceman rather than a civilian contractor.

It is no disrespect to military pilots to say that unmanned aircraft threaten their jobs: that's just a fact - setting aside pilots who carry passengers, perhaps. It is no disrespect to air forces' bravery or technical competence to say that unmanned combat aircraft in large numbers seriously threaten their status as "warriors" and therefore as uniformed, independent fighting services.

 A decades-long setback in unmanned aircraft development would be a good thing for both groups, actually.

Some at least of the pilots and air force people at the conference will be fearing the Sky Warrior force not because it might fail, but because it might succeed.

Disclaimer: Your correspondent was in both the army and the air force as a reservist before spending a long time in the navy. He has been described by a senior Army officer as "totally unsuited to military life", by various senior naval officers as a traitor to the service, and by his old airforce CO as having "agricultural" piloting skills; though the same long-suffering man eventually gave permission for solo flying.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The very idea of someone with no wings piloting anything, remotely or not, scares the bollocks off me.  



Edit:  oops, put USAF in title line.  Mean Army of course.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 10:34:16 AM by Swoop »

Offline Latrobe

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 12:32:39 PM »
The Terminator movies are coming true, just like Star Wars is.

Offline john9001

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 12:33:57 PM »
you mean the army will not have full colonels and generals flying the UAV's, outrageous.:O

after WW2, when Gen LeMay formed the airforce and he made congress say that only the airforce would have fixed wing aircraft, (except navy/marine), and the army would only be allowed rotary wing aircraft.

Offline Ack-Ack

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 12:41:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001


after WW2, when Gen LeMay formed the airforce and he made congress say that only the airforce would have fixed wing aircraft, (except navy/marine), and the army would only be allowed rotary wing aircraft.


Oh really?  So these aren't US Army fixed wing aircraft?






ack-ack
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Offline Holden McGroin

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 12:50:56 PM »
Quote
after WW2, when Gen LeMay formed the airforce and he made congress say that only the airforce would have fixed wing aircraft, (except navy/marine), and the army would only be allowed rotary wing aircraft.





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Offline Airscrew

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 01:16:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Oh really?  So these aren't US Army fixed wing aircraft?
ack-ack

 or this


Offline wulfie-away

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 01:39:03 PM »
F*ck that. If they are armed, I want military pilots controlling them.

Military flight training does a hell of a lot more than just teaching someone to fly an aircraft.

My $.02.

-Mike/wulfie

Offline Tigeress

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 02:06:06 PM »
Hey maybe I can get a job as a civilian contractor and finally get to fly ground attack combat missions from 9 to 5 and still get home in time to fix supper, yack on the phone and watch some TV... what do you think?

Could even tele-commute from home using the laptop!

Would have to make a new voice mail recording for when I am busy flying with the laptop... "Sorry, I can't answer the phone right now... I am shooting hellfire missiles from a UCAV at the Taliban in Afganistan via the internet... please leave a message and when my missiles are expended and the UCAV is in ARAL* mode I will call you back. Have a Nice Day." BEEP

:O :noid :) :rofl :p

Just kidding but this is what they are alluding too...

TIGERESS

* ARAL - Automatic Return And Land
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 02:26:45 PM by Tigeress »

Offline AquaShrimp

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 02:50:25 PM »
I didn't want to tell you guys this, but now I have to.  I've already been contacted by the USAF to start flying remote combat missions with UAVs.  The USAF recognized me as being the best Aces High pilot, and they want me to head the new remote squadron.  I accepted.  So far, I already have 19 confirmed kills (they say some were actually friendly fire on Iraqis, but who are we kidding, there are no friendly Iraqis on our side!), so I'm about to be a quadruple ace.

I just wanted you guys to know that I'm a real life fighter pilot now.

Offline Dago

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 04:17:57 PM »
Better sell any stock you have in Ray Ban and all the oversize watch makers.  :D
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Offline Chairboy

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2007, 04:40:23 PM »
Salutations Mr Jonathan Bolton, Editor in Chief,

It is with considerable agitation that I opened to-days Chronicle-Register Tribune to read a story about a new change in the operation of some mechanical hoist-ways.  These contraptions that move cargo loads of men upwards to the dizzying heights of our modern industrial towers have un-til now been operated by skilled navigators, well trained in the operation of the fiendishly complex springs and pulleys that must be precisely controlled to avoid sending these busy crashing men to their deaths in the deep pits of the metropolis we live in.

But to-day, I read of the works of a maniac who pro-poses to equip one of these clockwork devices with the means of being controlled by untrained passengers themselves.  What pre-posterousnesse is this?  Tonnes of heavy iron will operate mere yards from rooms of children, mothers, and the medically unfit, controlled by the careless instructions of the casual pedestrian!  Why, even a well intentioned female or negro might be able to issue the feeble minded instructions that send such a machine ripping through crowds of well wishers.

The keys to the asylum, good sir, have been handed to the inmates!

The hav-oc generated by these thundering death-carriages will reign death and destruction through our fine city.  The cobblestones shall run red with the blood of its victims, and the load upon our undertaker industry shall be fierce indeed.  This does not even include the damage causede by the stampeding horses spooked by the loud noises of the catas-trophe.

I beg of Mr. Otis to re-consider his foolish propositione and leave the piloting of these unforgiving steel monsters in the hands of trained professionals.  

Sincerely,

Michael Lipton Bigglesworth the 3rd
Citizen
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Offline AKIron

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 04:43:15 PM »
"In order to apply lethal force you should be a rated aviator," commented another, referring to the Sky warrior's potential to carry eight Hellfire missiles, each capable of destroying a tank. That said, other things can apply this level of lethal force; for example another tank, often commanded by a lowly, non-aviator corporal in the British Army.

I think the bolded says it all.
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Offline Airscrew

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 04:44:31 PM »
Is that editorial for real CB? :lol  elevator vs aircraft, a stretch, but still its funny...

Offline GtoRA2

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2007, 04:52:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Oh really?  So these aren't US Army fixed wing aircraft?






ack-ack


John forgot the "armed" part.

Offline Chairboy

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 04:58:54 PM »
Thank you, thank you.  Remember to tip your waitresses folks, you've been a great audience!
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis