Author Topic: USAF taking flying away from pilots......  (Read 789 times)

Offline john9001

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2007, 06:52:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
John forgot the "armed" part.


sorry, my oversight.
<>

Offline Holden McGroin

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2007, 07:18:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
sorry, my oversight.
<>




Quote
http://www.warbirdalley.com/ov1.htm
Experience in Vietnam soon showed that the policy of operating reconnaissance aircraft unarmed was not always wise. In response, a new variant, the JOV-1A, was built with four underwing hard-points for guns and rockets.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline AquaShrimp

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2007, 07:23:45 PM »
I read a book about an army OV pilot, called "Cleared Hot".  The pilot in the book said midway through the war, the Pentagon heard about the army's fixed wing aircraft attacking enemy troops, and ordered them to stop.  So the army had to manipulate its records.  In the after action reports, instead of saying "We attacked an enemy troop formation", they went with "We marked the enemy troops location with rockets".  Of course they used high explosive rockets to mark the positions.

Offline Frodo

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2007, 09:33:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wulfie-away
F*ck that. If they are armed, I want military pilots controlling them.-Mike/wulfie


Agree!

Hi ya Wulfie. You FW dweeb. :D

Frodo


JG11 

TEAMWORK IS ESSENTIAL....IT GIVES THE ENEMY SOMEONE ELSE TO SHOOT AT.

Offline BiGBMAW

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2007, 10:26:41 PM »
I already have been flying UAV Combat missions in the Middle East..

I would still be flying...but I got a scorpion in my helmet...sitting at my desk, I now have brain cancer..But my Mustang & P38 are still in the garage....I also developed  a game about my life experiences, It should be out after I can see again.....The scorpion I think was placed in my helmet by the CIA..I know too much

Offline ROC

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2007, 10:43:29 PM »
Read "Enders Game"

Don't you all know that while you think you are playing a game, you are Actually in combat taking people out half way across the galaxy??
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline Chairboy

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2007, 10:47:11 PM »
The enemy's gate is down.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 03:46:05 AM »
Maybe it'll scare the enemy too, they might crash the thing on their heads.. :)
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline moot

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 04:04:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
The enemy's gate is down.

"There is a way to fight, and a way to win. They are not necessarily one and the same".  I'd forgotten that line.  Applies really well in AH too..
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Tigeress

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 06:14:53 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, after reading links about X-plane UCAVs on the X-plane thread, there are no plans to have an air-to-air dogfighting UCAV even though the high G manuvers an unmanned aircraft can perform  far exceeds present limitations.

What I am concerned about is the potential of electronic takeover of UCAVs and turning them against friendlies. You can bet if the Russians were putting UCAVs in the air the US would be figuring out how to exploit this potential.

Some interesting reading...

Below from --> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ucav-n.htm

excerpt:
"Naval Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle (UCAV-N)

The system is based on the concept of Network Centric Warfare. The Mission Control System will employ operators at the center of information. Using intelligent decision aids, a single controller will be able to monitor and control several aircraft simultaneously.

The air vehicle itself will be intelligent; for example it will diagnose its current health and prognose its future health so that it can maximize its mission capability with degraded functionality. At the squadron level, higher echelon tactical unit levels, and fleet levels, an autonomic logistics system will suggest courses of action to tactical commanders to maximize effectiveness of the aircraft and parent fighting units. "

TIGERESS

Edit: I suspect if the US had competitors in UCAV development the logical leap would be UCAV air-to-air combat fighter planes. Imagine a biologically limited fighter (a BLF) going up against a non-biologically limited fighter (an  NBLF); or two UCAVs dog fighting each other.

UCAVs don’t have families and don't require retirement pay nor do they burden the military with veterans’ needs and benefits and expenses and can be turned out on an assembly line.

UCAVs... Generals and Admirals long wished for Robot Warriors of the Air.

Imagine a near earth orbiting UCAV Aircraft Carrier launching UCAVs from overhead a remote target zone. Just the threat of that is intimidating beyond imagination. This is the 21st Century... look how far aircraft technology has progressed in the previous century.

Imagine a paranoid Gov't survailing their population centers 24 hours a day with UAVs and enforcing civil laws with urban UCAVs. A three foot wing span urban UCAV swooping down and spraying a crowd like a crop duster with low amounts of highly potent chemicals or attacking people with deadly, or near-deadly,  force.

DARPA is probably already brainstorming on all this and much more... The Terminator movie series was based on real potentials not just impossible fantasies.

If enough urban UCAVs were in operation in IRAQ right now I would expect those who plant roadside IEDs could be put out of business. See one or more people in a potential IED placement zone; Shoot a small sniffer probe; detect explosives; hunt down and kill them all within moments or track them back to their base of operations and bomb the whole thing.

If the full force of government resources are brought to bear on such scenarios,  its not a stretch to imagine utilizing such technologies in the homeland against citizens for any reason the government chooses.

The job of scientists and engineers is to turn problems into solutions for profit... I am an engineer; thats what I do for a living... turn problems into solutions for profit.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 07:28:57 AM by Tigeress »

Offline cpxxx

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 06:33:23 AM »
As a pilot, I don't care if non pilots fly UAVs. It's a waste of training for a pilot to be 'operating' those things.  In all probability a fourteen year old with experience playing with FSX would be the best 'operator'. The whole point of being a pilot is to fly. Much of the training revolves around safely flying an aircraft from take off to landing while carrying out whatever the mission is.

UAVs are disposable, it hardly matters if they're lost in combat. So there is no real point in employing a pilot.

There will always be a requirement for pilots just not so many military pilots and practically no fighter pilots.

Offline Grayeagle

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 09:01:58 AM »
Sheesh.

Coupla 'stories' I heard long ago:

This happened back in the early '70's...
..F-4 vs Firebee (drone operator was in a C-130 I heard) ..the firebee was unarmed, but just for laughs they got into a 'dogfight' ..it only took a few seconds for the drone to chop angles and park at the Phantom's 6, and the rhino driver could not shake the drone at all at that point.

Firebee drones were bein lost going up north on a particular 'run' and no one knew why .. so an F-4 capped one as it made its run ..
..seems the drone was impacting a bridge mid-span that hadn't been there initially ..the North Vietnamese had put a new bridge across a valley on the route, and the drone was takin it down pretty much by accident every time it made a run up there..
 ..as the bridge was repaired :)

Personally .. A skilled operator is a skilled operator .. I'd be all for utilizing the best possible weapon system regardless if it involved someone runnin the fight 'head in the cockpit' or a good algorithm of IF-THEN-GOTO loops :)

It's a fact that reaction time counts in ACM ..we get some itty-bitty plane up that can pull a billion g's, react faster than an eyeblink, and never misses,
.. friends .. all it would need is a colt .45 .. it could fly up an shoot a pilot right in his 'Nads.

-Frank
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline Rich46yo

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USAF taking flying away from pilots......
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2007, 09:04:48 AM »
UCAVs are the future so get used to it. The time will come when there will be no pilots inside the warplane.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"