Author Topic: And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!  (Read 253 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« on: December 06, 2007, 06:40:11 AM »
Surprised this hasnt been posted yet.
If it has I missed it anyway.
Im sure there will be both cheers and howls here over this one.

TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!

"In recent years, the price for crude oil, gasoline, heating oil, natural gas, propane, and other commodities have been at the mercy of energy traders, who have used the little-known “Enron Loophole” to cash in at the expense of families and small businesses.  Since the loophole was opened, billions of dollars have flowed through the loophole and traders have reaped the rewards – driving up the price of energy and, in some cases, manipulating it for personal profit. "

http://www.closetheenronloophole.com/
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Offline Thruster

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And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 08:31:27 AM »
I tried to get a better idea of exactly how trading on unregulated exchanges and not having to keep detailed activity logs affects spot markets but I'm still confused.

I can see how better oversight is needed when domestic firms are advising and clearing clients' accounts, reporting profit/loss activity to shareholders and maintaining appropriate reserves. That's been the problem with both the C.F.T.C. and the S.E.C. since they were created.

I always understood futures markets to be derivative of spots, not the other way around. So I'm having trouble understanding how a speculator's long position, which is going to be settled before the delivery, or rolled to another contract date at a premium compels producers to artificially inflate prices. There are simpler and more reliable methods of price manipulation available to producers all the way down the production chain.

If using unregulated (by the C.F.T.C.) exchanges creates an unattractive environment for speculators, so be it. The futures game is about risk. Managing risk or capitalizing on assuming risk are the reasons these markets began in the first place. And that's what they are about now. If there really is a divergence in futures/spot value, the shorts will be there ala Soros and the G.B.P.

The Enron loophole as I understand it was an effort to allow public companies to save time and money while allowing for potential abuse within it's own accounting construct. The employees, shareholders, employees and vendors are the ones with the most to gain by closing it. Or they exercise more due diligence before they get involved with these outfits.

The idea of having access to all available markets and instruments is actually very attractive to me as a speculator. If not only to be able to capitalize on more divergence and possible arbitrage windfalls.

The problem is oversight. We employ these agencies to police these companies and they do a terrible job. It all goes back to accountability. If the actions of Enron were noble, there would be no complaint. But in fact they were not and it's not the only bad seed out there. If the commissions we created won't provide adequate regulation, then we need to fix that problem, not limit our opportunities in financial markets.

Offline Tigeress

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Re: And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 11:29:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Surprised this hasnt been posted yet.
If it has I missed it anyway.
Im sure there will be both cheers and howls here over this one.

TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!

"In recent years, the price for crude oil, gasoline, heating oil, natural gas, propane, and other commodities have been at the mercy of energy traders, who have used the little-known “Enron Loophole” to cash in at the expense of families and small businesses.  Since the loophole was opened, billions of dollars have flowed through the loophole and traders have reaped the rewards – driving up the price of energy and, in some cases, manipulating it for personal profit. "

http://www.closetheenronloophole.com/


Good thread, Dred! I checked it out and will continue researching it.
Thanks for the heads up, dear.

TIGERESS

Offline kamilyun

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And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 12:48:28 PM »
<---counting down to when Lasersailor comes along to tell you to stop whining, start your own trading scheme and make a killing.  After all, you're just jealous that someone is smarter than you. :rolleyes:

Offline Irwink!

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Re: And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 12:55:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Surprised this hasnt been posted yet.
If it has I missed it anyway.
Im sure there will be both cheers and howls here over this one.

TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!

"In recent years, the price for crude oil, gasoline, heating oil, natural gas, propane, and other commodities have been at the mercy of energy traders, who have used the little-known “Enron Loophole” to cash in at the expense of families and small businesses.  Since the loophole was opened, billions of dollars have flowed through the loophole and traders have reaped the rewards – driving up the price of energy and, in some cases, manipulating it for personal profit. "

http://www.closetheenronloophole.com/


"...in some cases, manipulating it for personal profit. "

Only some cases!?

Offline lasersailor184

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And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 01:28:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kamilyun
<---counting down to when Lasersailor comes along to tell you to stop whining, start your own trading scheme and make a killing.  After all, you're just jealous that someone is smarter than you. :rolleyes:


50 Minutes.  It's ridiculous that the inept should make the laws that govern the productive.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline DREDIOCK

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And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 07:18:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kamilyun
<---counting down to when Lasersailor comes along to tell you to stop whining, start your own trading scheme and make a killing.  After all, you're just jealous that someone is smarter than you. :rolleyes:


I didnt offer an opinion on it one way or the other.
But just knew there would be one group here cheering it.
And another trying to condemn it as the worst thing since Stalin LOL
And some that might want to learn more about it
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 07:21:34 PM by DREDIOCK »
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Re: And Speaking of Oil. TELL CONGRESS TO CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE!
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 07:22:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Irwink!
"...in some cases, manipulating it for personal profit. "

Only some cases!?


LOL
you should hear the way they advertise this on the radio.
They claim it raises the prices "up to 40%"
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty