Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs

[Maverick]

Yes Laz, I was kidding, that's why I put the smiley there. I tend not to use the lil suckers when I'm serious.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by SIG220
So if she was feeling so physically weak, where did all of her strength come from, if not from God??

I believe it doesn't take much physical strength to raise a gun and pull the trigger - very much the same reason why this lunatic managed to cause so much harm in the first place.

There's an age old saying - live by the sword, die by the sword. It's easy to shoot someone but it's just as easy to get shot yourself.

[lazs2]

I imagine that she is saying that god gave her the strength of character to do the job...

But.. I don't care.. I am just glad that she found it.   I am glad she was there with a revolver and I bet every damn one of the people in that church are glad that they were not in a "gun free zone"

lazs

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by SIG220
Perhaps Satan was in control of the shooter.   Although now there are people saying that he was mentally ill also, and heard voices.

If God exists, then Satan and Hell surely must exist also.  So maybe he was the one speaking into this fellow's head and guiding his actions?  We have just learned that the shooter was a fan of rocker Marilyn Manson, who we know in real life is a member of the First Church of Satan.  

For him to have sung a Manson song at a Christmas Musical event back in December 14, 2002, illustrates just how bizarre his behavior had become, and why he was kicked out of the missionary center back at that time.   Can you imagine how the folks in the audience must have reacted to the Manson song?  People actually reported that his performance made them feel scared.  He was in a group at the center training back then to go to Bosnia to convert Muslims to Christianity, before being thrown out of the organization.  

Here is a quote from Manson's autobiography: "The Long Hard Road Out of Hell,":

" It makes a lot more sense to follow the Satanic Bible, written with 20th century humanity in mind, than a book that was written as a companion to a culture long since defunct. Who's to say that a hundred years from now, some idiot isn't going to find a Marilyn Manson T-shirt, nail it to a wall and decide to pray to it. "

So perhaps we need to remember the famous words of the SNL Church Lady.  They could possibly apply.

Still, no matter what, we need to ask God to forgive the shooter too, and comfort his family also, who are naturally in pain as well.  Like the Virginia Tech shooter, this fellow's family all seem to be good and decent people too.

SIG 220

'

Manson is great. Not only does he have some cool tunes, he mangages to piss off so many fans of jesus too while giggeling at how seriously they take him as a threat

[moot]

Originally posted by SIG220
Perhaps

Exactly.
I said the short of my tangential opinion already.  It's the premise for a refutal to some (if not all, don't have time to read the whole thread) of the points you're arguing.
Sorry for the derail - obviously I'm more glad than not with the way things turned out at that gathering.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by -tronski-
So its Marilyn Manson made me do it now?

Ha...I've listen to Marilyn Manson plenty of times...and yet still haven't manage to kill a single person...

Spend some time at the practice range and remember, squeeze, don't pull the trigger.

Oops... shouldn't have given that advice... how do you delete?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Maverick
Frankly your asking THIS group here rather than someone with the theological background is not where I would expect to find any real answers to your questions.  

Again, posing questions to peers isn't always about looking for an authoritative answer to quell one's own frustration and confusion (even if there's no authoritative answer in the pocket of the one asking).

Just sayin'.

You've done it yourself. Admit it.

[indy007]

I think it's obvious God only loves 50% of people.

He's always on the side of the winners. The church gunfighter, the boxer, the nfl player... never on the side of the losers. So much for loving all of his children.

[hyena426]

I've got a problem with it if I accept the notion of a God who steps in when he feels like it to cause people to do things, and he just sits back and let others die.

I don't believe you can have it both ways. I can accept that there is a God who gave us the ability to choose and have free will and then stepped out of the equation to let us use that gift. But to suggest he randomly chooses to intervene is a horrible thing to ponder for me.

How would you explain that to the parents of those two dead kids that the killer shot on the way into the church? God was too busy preparing the security guard to save the two girls?

And I ask in all seriousness as I'm 2 years and 4 months out from having lost 2 of mine

who says god helped anyone in that church in the first place? just cause some one was there to do the right thing?i dout god goes around like a david copperfield doing tricks. and every time somthing good happens doesnt mean he did it. and every time somthing bad happens,we cant blame him for not stopping it. we have only are selves to blame and only are selves to punish. but just like most people we love to put the blame some were else or use this as a exsample of why god is non exsistent or just cruel. my mom was murderd by my step dad while i was sleeping when i was little..did i blame god for letting this happen? no. i blame that son of a #@$# !#@$ that did it in the first place!!

now say some one was saved from death cause the bullet stopped in mid air and melted. now i would say that was god or somthing..lol.  its a good thing the shooter was stopped. not a good thing he took life, i dout any of it has to do with god. most likely alot of bad luck and a little good luck to boot.

[SIG220]

Originally posted by Eagler
Strange how some are trying to turn this into another bash on Christianity.

Peace to the family of those killed by the cheekbones.

Thanks to the security guard for her life saving fast action:

Don't forget that the killer's family is also suffering terribly right now as well.

And they are as innocent as anyone else in this matter.

SIG 220

[john9001]

Originally posted by SIG220

And they are as innocent as anyone else in this matter.

SIG 220

not entirely innocent, they raised him.

[SIG220]

Here is some updated news on this story.

It turns out that there was ANOTHER armed security guard in the Colorado Church, but for some reason, he declined to challenge the killer.  

A third man, a Vietnam veteran, begged this male guard to hand him his pistol, since he was declining to attack the shooter.  However, the guard refused to give up his gun.

Frustrated, the vet then jumped out in the open and shouted: "COWARD" at the killer, in order to draw his fire away from others.

He also witnessed Jeanne Assam's heroic charge, and described how she and the murderer exchanged intense gunfire at each other at close quarters.

It was also revealed that the killer shouted: "I want to kill Christians!"

Here is a link to this new story about the shooting:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22198709/

Besides the written story, there is also a video that you can view.

SIG 220

[SIG220]

Originally posted by john9001
not entirely innocent, they raised him.

That is a most insensitive thing for you to say about them.

Have you no compassion for the suffering of fellow human beings???

The absolutely worst thing that can ever happen to a person is for a parent to lose a child.   Nothing else is as emotionally devastating to a person.

They are probably feeling enough guilt and shame at this point, without people saying insensitive things like this about them.

SIG 220

[TwentyFo]

It seems that the killer's mother and Rev. Ted Haggard played a role in this tragedy as well.

News Article

The kid was obviously crazy, but he didn't become crazy on his own.

[john9001]

sig220, save your compassion for the parents of the kids he killed, they are the ones that need it.