Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs

[Arlo]

Originally posted by john9001
sig220, save your compassion for the parents of the kids he killed, they are the ones that need it.

Curious. You have the ability to remotely triage need of compassion and delegate to others so well.

[SIG220]

Originally posted by TwentyFo
It seems that the killer's mother and Rev. Ted Haggard played a role in this tragedy as well.

News Article

The kid was obviously crazy, but he didn't become crazy on his own.

You should contrast the way that you are talking about his parents, with how the New Life Church itself is treating them.

It is quite the stark comparison, no???

SIG 220

[SIG220]

Originally posted by Arlo
Curious. You have the ability to remotely triage need of compassion and delegate to others so well.

So you believe that his parents are not already suffering horribly right now?   That would be ridiculous to contemplate.   Does not sound like you are a parent yourself, if that is the case.

I'm only saying that one should feel compassion for everyone that has lost loved ones in this matter.

Why is that too much to expect??

Would Jesus say that only select human beings deserve compassion???

SIG 220

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Spend some time at the practice range and remember, squeeze, don't pull the trigger.

Oops... shouldn't have given that advice... how do you delete?

I have a tendency to involuntarily close my right eye on a range...thats probably the problem

 Tronsky

[SIG220]

Originally posted by john9001
sig220, save your compassion for the parents of the kids he killed, they are the ones that need it.

I will let Jesus respond:

"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

You know, Jesus would expect us all to forgive the killer, also.   I doubt that I am that good enough of a person myself to honestly be able to do that.   But I certainly can hold the parents blameless in this matter, and not cast any stones at them.

The infamous Thurston High School shooting took place here in the community that I live in.   And there were many here who absolutely vilified Kip Kinkel's parents, even though they were the very first people that he murdered.   Kinkel's confession noted that his mother, Faith Kinkel, proved to be very difficult to kill.   As he continued to shoot her, she begged him for mercy, as she laid helpless and wounded on the floor.   But he continued to fire away, until he had put a total of 6 shots into her chest and head.   Finally, she went quiet, and stopped moving.

Feelings against the Kinkels were so very strong, that the city's memorial to the tragedy does not even include their names as victims.   This was despite the fact that Faith Kinkel was one of the most liked and respected teachers in the entire High School district, and a huge number of students and fellow teachers came to a memorial service for her that was held by the school district.

The father, Bill Kinkel, had also had a long and distinguished career with the school district.   But he had already retired, and was just teaching part time at the local community college when the tragedy took place.

So I have seen these kind of feelings expressed before.   I listened to a lot of these sort of comments being expressed by many folks back then, condemning the parents, for the actions of their child.

But I still do not agree with them.

SIG 220

[lazs2]

indy said...  "I think it's obvious God only loves 50% of people.

He's always on the side of the winners. The church gunfighter, the boxer, the nfl player... never on the side of the losers. So much for loving all of his children. "

while glib..  It doesn't really show much thought.   How do you know that the outcome that happens isn't the best that could happen for both the winners and the losers?

As for the parents of the kid..   I agree with sig that there is no reason to punish them.   Not unless they told the kid to do it and are thrilled with the result.

lazs

[AKIron]

Originally posted by SIG220
Here is a link to this new story about the shooting:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22198709/

Besides the written story, there is also a video that you can view.

SIG 220

Wow, amazing courage. We could certainly put a damper on these crazy shootings if more responsible people like these two carried.

[lazs2]

I don't think I would like to be the guy who froze up and didn't shoot at the killer.

lazs

[indy007]

Originally posted by lazs2
indy said...  "I think it's obvious God only loves 50% of people.

He's always on the side of the winners. The church gunfighter, the boxer, the nfl player... never on the side of the losers. So much for loving all of his children. "

while glib..  It doesn't really show much thought.   How do you know that the outcome that happens isn't the best that could happen for both the winners and the losers?

lazs

We're talking about the same God that flooded the world, told a guy to kill his son, sent an angel to slaughter children, and condemns people to torture for an unimaginable time-span, right? Sounds like a sweetheartbag to me.

[Maverick]

Laz,

I'd bet that the person who froze up is likely to take his own life soon. With all of the publicity I doubt he would be able to live in that area at all. I'm not saying I want that to happen, he just lost himself in his fear. I just don't see him being able to get past it. That will end up making him yet another victim of the shooter.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by SIG220
I will let Jesus respond:

"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

You know, Jesus would expect us all to forgive the killer, also.   I doubt that I am that good enough of a person myself to honestly be able to do that.   But I certainly can hold the parents blameless in this matter, and not cast any stones at them.

The infamous Thurston High School shooting took place here in the community that I live in.   And there were many here who absolutely vilified Kip Kinkel's parents, even though they were the very first people that he murdered.   Kinkel's confession noted that his mother, Faith Kinkel, proved to be very difficult to kill.   As he continued to shoot her, she begged him for mercy, as she laid helpless and wounded on the floor.   But he continued to fire away, until he had put a total of 6 shots into her chest and head.   Finally, she went quiet, and stopped moving.

Feelings against the Kinkels were so very strong, that the city's memorial to the tragedy does not even include their names as victims.   This was despite the fact that Faith Kinkel was one of the most liked and respected teachers in the entire High School district, and a huge number of students and fellow teachers came to a memorial service for her that was held by the school district.

The father, Bill Kinkel, had also had a long and distinguished career with the school district.   But he had already retired, and was just teaching part time at the local community college when the tragedy took place.

So I have seen these kind of feelings expressed before.   I listened to a lot of these sort of comments being expressed by many folks back then, condemning the parents, for the actions of their child.

But I still do not agree with them.

SIG 220

SIG,

You apparently have a lot of compassion and I, for one, am happy to see that.

This will all unfold in the fullness of time.

For what it's worth, Matthew Murray was a homicidal maniac and though blame can be found in others for disfunctional aspects of his life that affected him, he alone is responsible for his actions, in my view.

He knew he was deranged yet did not turn himself in.

For some insight as to his BBS postings... his UserID was nghtmrchld26 on the http://p223.ezboard.com/Ex-Pentecostal-Forums/bexpentecostalforums BBS.

This is a recent thread Matthew Murray started --> http://p223.ezboard.com/Drowning-in-despair/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1828.topic

For me, I have to focus on others he almost killed and those he hurt and killed at this point... not Matthew, thus I leave that to others.

He was the equiv of a rabid dog, imv; how he got rabid was whatever it was. I feel sorry for him; I would have shot him to stop him from continuing his killing of innocent people in that church.

In his BBS writings, he blamed his Mother and religion and rock music he choose to listen to.

I took a look at a youtube Rock video he posted a link to. I can not and will not post that link here; its content is against AH BBS policies plus it's content is disturbing to me.

TIGERESS

[Bodhi]

I don't feel sorry for him.  He was a cold blooded killer.  The best thing to do with a person like that is forget him.  Let the authorities worry about the why, but as far as he goes, he just becomes cold blooded psychpath # ?????.  That way these idiots can not say, "Watch this, I am going to be infamous one day."  If there is no personal recognition, it might just stop some of these sweetheart bags

As for his poem, he sounds like just one more goth kid who is having a pity party for himself.  These psychopaths need to look inside and realise they are the only ones who can force change in their life.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by SIG220
The infamous Thurston High School shooting took place here in the community that I live in.   And there were many here who absolutely vilified Kip Kinkel's parents, even though they were the very first people that he murdered.  

Had Kinkel's parents been carrying, they could have returned fire and...

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by SIG220


B]SNIP>
Perhaps she will be nominated for the Presidential Medal of Freedom??   I think that she may very well deserve to get it.   Just think how many could have potentially died at the church, if not for her fast action.

SIG 220 [/B]

 I doubt it ... Bush is to busy Pardoning Crooks to be bothered it ...[


29 crooks pardoned

...

 Bob/CHECKERS

[john9001]

that bush, he be a bad man, unlike clinton
http://www.time.com/time/2007/presidential_pardons/10.html