Guns in Church; Legally licensed and concealed; Ok? Not Ok?

[Tigeress]

Although there are two threads on the recent mass shootings, the subject of Guns in Church seems, correctly, to be a topic of its own.

I have read that Jeanne Assum, a civilian CCW gun carrying woman in the church congregation who took out the Colorado Shooter is deemed, by some, to a criminal for the reason of carrying a gun in church; churches being typically a Gun Free Zone.

What are your thoughts?

And please keep your emotions in check on either side of such a debate.

The intent is to calmly discuss and explore... not insult each other.

Some people are secular; others are not; room for everyone.

If this thread gets out of hand Skuzzy will shut it down and probably hand out a few bans in the process, so word to the wise... please keep it civil and respectful.

TIGERESS

[JB73]

well honestly if the government tries to make any law on what can and can not be carried in a Church it would be unconstitutional.




that whole separation thing has to go both ways ya see... otherwise us Christians better get equal billing and be allowed to put up crosses on public buildings and such.

[AKIron]

Guns yes, snakes, maybe not.

[john9001]

what would be a reason for not having a gun in church?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by JB73

that whole separation thing has to go both ways ya see... otherwise us Christians better get equal billing and be allowed to put up crosses on public buildings and such.

WHile I agree with the first part of your statement, I have a huge agreement with the second.  There is no separtation of church and state.  No were does it say that in the constitution.

Keeping on sujbect, churches are private property and would thus be able to make there own rules as far as possesion and concealed carry.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by JB73
well honestly if the government tries to make any law on what can and can not be carried in a Church it would be unconstitutional.

that whole separation thing has to go both ways ya see... otherwise us Christians better get equal billing and be allowed to put up crosses on public buildings and such.

I seriously doubt that lawmakers decide whether a Church is a Gun Free Zone or not. It's up to the Church itself... correct me if I am wrong about this.

This is about the concept and realities of churches being Gun Free Zones.

In my view, God gave us all the responsibility and means to defend ourselves from predators. I don't second-guess God so I don't assume what He thinks on this one way or the other... rather it’s about what we humans think.

Jeanne brought a gun with her; she used it; and saved countless human lives.

Should others legally licensed to carry concealed firearms by State Government do the same as she?

TIGERESS

[Shuffler]

I read that the woman who shot the murdering scum in the church was their security guard.

I do not see any problem with anyone with a CCW carrying in a church.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by Shuffler
I read that the woman who shot the murdering scum in the church was their security guard.

I do not see any problem with anyone with a CCW carrying in a church.

Turns out she was not a professional security guard on paid duty as previously reported by the media.

The media also reported the armed defender was a man; they got that wrong too.

TIGERESS

Edit: from --> http://www.charlotte.com/nation/story/399753.html

Excerpts:
Attacks force churches to boost security
By ERIC GORSKI
AP Religion Writer

"COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. --When a black-clad gunman walked into New Life Church on Sunday and started shooting, he was met with the church's first line of defense: a congregant with a concealed-weapons permit and a law enforcement background.

The armed volunteer, Jeanne Assam, shot the gunman, who police said may have committed suicide. New Life's pastor credited her with saving dozens more lives.

Even without a security department, churches can train volunteers to keep watch for suspicious behavior, such as a visitor dressed in a long coat in summer or not making eye contact with anyone, Smith said.

Even before the founding pastor, the now-disgraced Ted Haggard, became a player on the national political stage, the church endured death threats against him. There were bomb scares and vandalism, including animal blood being splashed on the walls, said Patton Dodd of Colorado Springs, a former New Life Church staff member and editor with the Web site Beliefnet.

"Even back then we had people undercover in the congregation who were armed," Dodd said. "It was a big church at the time, it was Christian, and some people really hate that stuff.

"Not only do we have military and ex-military all over, we have this sort of frontier mentality. People around here are serious about protecting their own."

Assam, the [sic]security guard, had attended the church's early worship service at 9 a.m., then stood watch in the rotunda of as the second service was letting out.

There, she confronted the gunman, identified as 24-year-old Matthew Murray. Murray managed to two kill two sisters and wound their father and two others before he was killed. At a news conference Monday, Assam said that she prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide her, and that her hands never shook.

American Jews have long stressed the need to safeguard their community organizations, schools and synagogues. Many groups formed security committees.

The Homeland Security Department created a grant program of nearly $50 million to improve security for religious and secular nonprofits considered at risk of terrorist attack.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Shuffler]

So it was not one of those rare occassions where the media was right. In their race to be first they release anything.... sad but true. In the past those type news services would be ignored for lack of integrity.

Sorry ... do not mean to hijack the thread

[indy007]

It doesn't have anything to do with religion, at all. Bringing religion into is a disservice to the arguement. The entire problem is the idea of "Gun Free Zones" period. It doesn't matter if it's a church, mall, elementary school, or 10 storey office building.

"Gun Free Zones" obviously do not work, and should be unconstitutional.

[forHIM]

If I recall correctly when MN's CCW law was revised a few years ago the gun free zones were to be schools and any organization that put in 1.5 inch aerial text that this premise was gun free.  A number of more liberally minded religious organizations sued and found a lenient judge that indicated houses of worship did not have to post such a sign to be considered gun free zones.  I haven't followed all that has happened since.  But regarding the topic, I believe that it is up to each congregation as to what they want.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by indy007
It doesn't have anything to do with religion, at all.

There are those who would argue that point with you as far as their personal views are concerned.

You can't protect people from themselves most times... but you can discuss and explore with people, pros and cons, and hear what they have to say.

In recent days I have come to realize the false illusion of safety a "Gun Free Zone" represents. Until the Pink Thread I have never even considered it.

As I have learned recently, Churchgoers in some churches are armed while attending services with full knowledge and blessing of their pastor and stand ready to defend.

TIGERESS

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by indy007
It doesn't have anything to do with religion, at all. Bringing religion into is a disservice to the arguement. The entire problem is the idea of "Gun Free Zones" period. It doesn't matter if it's a church, mall, elementary school, or 10 storey office building.

"Gun Free Zones" obviously do not work, and should be unconstitutional.

So you are suggesting then that any private business or home, could not ask people not to bring guns into them?

How would it be unconstitutional for a church and it's members to decide whether they want guns on the premises or not?

[indy007]

Originally posted by Guppy35
So you are suggesting then that any private business or home, could not ask people not to bring guns into them?

How would it be unconstitutional for a church and it's members to decide whether they want guns on the premises or not?

Yes. It's not about what you feel or want. It's about a basic right to life, and the ability to preserve your own in self-defense. Just because you're standing in a place that some people consider "sacred", why would that change? Religion can not trump individual rights, or we might as well be living in the dark ages.

edit: cross out dark ages, replace with Pakistan.

[Curval]

Tigress...you are preching to the converted.  Anyone with a differing opinion has already been run out of Dodge.

These gun threads are nothing more than AH BBS masterbation these days.