Author Topic: Guns in Church; Legally licensed and concealed; Ok? Not Ok? (Read 946 times)

Tigeress · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:33:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Tigress...you are preching to the converted. Anyone with a differing opinion has already been run out of Dodge.

These gun threads are nothing more than AH BBS masterbation these days.

Understood, dear, but I am seeing folks who don't obviously read the gun threads who might have something to say.

TIGERESS

Curval · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:52:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tigeress
Understood, dear, but I am seeing folks who don't obviously read the gun threads who might have something to say.

TIGERESS

Seeing or seeking?

If the former, well good luck to 'em. I give the threads a glance but rarely comment anymore. If "seeking" then don't hold your breath. It is impossible to have a civil conversation on the topic here. All you need to do is dredge up a few old posts and everything that can be said has been. Effect...none.

Brownshirt · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:58:55 PM »

You're in a pretty sad situation if you need guns at the chuch to protect yourself from the guns.

Hornet33 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:03:09 PM »

It's a law in Virginia that you cannot carry a gun in church WHILE sevices are being held without good or suficient reason. If services aren't being held it's legal to carry. Kinda weird in my opinion but that's the law.

Where Unlawful to Carry in the State/Commonwealth of Virginia

§18.2-308 (J.3.): No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

§18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.

§18.2-283: To a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place, without good and sufficient reason.

§18.2-283.1: Courthouse.

§18.2-308.1: School property. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

§18.2-287.01: Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal.

Sabre · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:03:43 PM »

To the best of my knowledge (recently went through CCW training in CO), churches are not exempt from the requirement to conspicously post signs banning fire arms on the premise. Only a few types of establishments have implicit "no-carry" rules (government buildings, all schools, bars).

For the record, posting a "No fire arms allowed" rule is little more than an invitation for the armed criminal to come in and do as he/she pleases. This last Sunday, I was in church, within only a few miles of one of these churches that was struck. We were ajourned early and told to go home, as there was concern by the church leadership that those involved might be randomly targeting churches in the area. This bothered me, as it seemed like giving into fear; however, as I was not armed and did not know if anyone else was armed, I can understand the precaution.

Chairboy · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:09:37 PM »

"Gun Free Zone" laws/signs only prevent the law/rules abiding from bringing a gun. The folks with ill intent may disregard even the most strongly worded sign.

Scca · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:16:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hornet33
It's a law in Virginia that you cannot carry a gun in church WHILE sevices are being held without good or suficient reason. If services aren't being held it's legal to carry. Kinda weird in my opinion but that's the law.

Where Unlawful to Carry in the State/Commonwealth of Virginia

§18.2-308 (J.3.): No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

§18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.

§18.2-283: To a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place, without good and sufficient reason.

§18.2-283.1: Courthouse.

§18.2-308.1: School property. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

§18.2-287.01: Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal.

I wonder who determines what a "good and sufficient reason" is? After the recent church shooting, it being a church seems reason enough to me.

Tigeress · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:16:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Brownshirt
You're in a pretty sad situation if you need guns at the chuch to protect yourself from the guns.

Well, the problem being faced is "people with guns" wishing to do harm to innocent people.

Interesting UserID, by the way... conjures up some recollection from history classes. WWII German Stormtroopers aka Brownshirts, yes?

TIGERESS

Shuffler · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:24:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by indy007
Yes. It's not about what you feel or want. It's about a basic right to life, and the ability to preserve your own in self-defense. Just because you're standing in a place that some people consider "sacred", why would that change? Religion can not trump individual rights, or we might as well be living in the dark ages.

edit: cross out dark ages, replace with Pakistan.

Agreed! You have the right not to go to that church if you disagree with it's thoughts or beliefs. So your rights are still preserved.

RedTop · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:26:59 PM »

I didn't read this whole thread yet...just the opening remarks by her majesty Tigress:D

Where I live , and this is just saying , not discussing LAW abiding...

There are not very many places I can remember if ANY that have a detector for wepons. Courhouses yeah....But to be blunt....

I could take my 9mm in my STATE OFFICE BUILDING ANYTIME and no one would know. And there are Troopers all over the place.

The ONLY time having a gun in a No gun zone around here would matter is if you pulled it.

Retaurants...ALOT of office buildings.....Most ANY place you go....you could have it.

I could carry a gun in church anytime.

Now do I think you should be able to carry in a church? Sure....but the real question here is ......How the hell we have gotten to the point as a nation and society that we would even CONTINPLATE it.

rogwar · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:28:05 PM »

Answer: No one sees my concealed firearm.

If conditions are such that it has to be displayed, it will come out smoking. Under those conditions I won't worry about being cited afterwards.

RedTop · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:38:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rogwar
Answer: No one sees my concealed firearm.

If conditions are such that it has to be displayed, it will come out smoking. Under those conditions I won't worry about being cited afterwards.

Exactly.

As was discussed in the other thread about CCW.....Any place I carried....whether it was a "gun free zone" or not and I saw someone going to do much harm...AND I could pull that gun out.....I'll take my chances on what happens later.

Pulling the gun in the first place......is the HARDEST part. Once you pull it.....you better be willing to use it if need be.

If that makes sense to anyone.

Maverick · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2007, 05:21:11 PM »

I have carried in a church many times. As long as it's legal in your jurisdiction it's a non issue.

REP0MAN · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2007, 06:09:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Brownshirt
You're in a pretty sad situation if you need guns at the chuch to protect yourself from the guns.

Welcome to the good old US of A!

I was a police officer for nearly 5 years in Oklahoma, between 1996 and 2001. Everyone at my church who knew who I was, knew what I did for a living. I had Sundays off. I carried every time I stepped into the place. And not just there. Everywhere I went.

Now, I work for a major Telecommunications Provider where I dig holes and fix Fiber Optic lines. I have no need to carry. Besides, if I did carry on the job, I would be fired swiftly if a manager found out.

RedTop · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2007, 06:11:29 PM »

I play Golf with a Cop almost weekly....He carries ALL THE TIME....

Certain golf course in the area....

...its a good thing TO carry and extra "Club"

because of there location.