Author Topic: A good fight? (Read 2472 times)

WWM · « **Reply #45 on:** December 12, 2007, 05:04:35 PM »

I am not specifically pointing a finger at any one person. There are some I could, but that is what PM's are for if I wanted to debate with "why you did that certain thing at that certain time", and no, no one owes me an explanation. That is not what this post was about. I know there are reasons this may be done related to what type of mission they are flying.

I personally chased a 190 after he vulched 4 kills off of an airstrip and their was no way possible for that county to cap that base and move troops in, however, he was good at it and no one could catch a shot on him or had a plane that was able to catch him. I had a 109G14 and was finally able to get close enough to put him in danger so he ran towards his base. We were on the deck and I was 600 out & out of cannons from previous engagements. I could not gain ground but was getting a few hits here and there with the ammo I had left. He finally ran close enough that a friendly F4U4 with alt was able to drop and gain enough speed that I had to break. This person was not a noob. I am not going to personally attack his name in open forum.

This is just one example of what I started this thread about. I am sure if asked this person would say he loves a good fight. Threads are developed to stimulate conversation. I gave examples of what I thought was not a good fight, in my opinion, and asked others to share their thoughts. IF that is a good fight in your opinion then fine. But usually when directly asked about that behavior after the incident you either get a change in subject that ends with"DA!" or you can hear the crickets chirping.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #46 on:** December 12, 2007, 05:08:21 PM »

Part of not finding good fights is partially my own fault, "and mind you I still find some good fights". I dont fly bombers in the stratosphere but am always in the 10,000 to 12,000' range, with heavies like the 17 at about 15,000'

Sometimes you find a good fight up there, sometimes you run into 10 bogeys like last night:eek: But I do restrict the fights I get into by flying bombers that high.

And why do I do it? #1, cause its a bomber. Not a Lanc stuka but a bomber. And a bombers best defense is altitude, that, and tactics. I drone a lot of hours away going the long way around a target so I dont get mixed up in the tonga line. I play the game to try and get to my target undetected.

12,000' is not a "fight avoiding altitude". Its a good medium altitude that lets you have success and find some fights. Ive shot heavies down with M-16s and quad 0.50s when they come into targets at 1,500' and I just refuse to do that.

Last night some great guys, whom I would have loved to fly with, had a big bomber mission going later in the night. When I looked at the mission I saw a 25% fuel load and right away knew what kind of mission it was going to be. I wished them luck, but, I dont fly bombers like that.

So, I guess Ill just keep on doing my thing and taking the fights when they come. But...when you see 26s, KI-67s, or B-17s, sneaking around to a target at that altitude its a good bet its me and I love a good one on one fight with a skilled opponent.

And we got some good ones boy. Ive ran into Pros in almost every kind of fighter. Of them all I'd say Lusche is an absolute surgeon when it comes to killing bombers. "Most" of the time when I lose its , at least partially, cause Ive done something wrong. But with him? You can do everything right and still lose.

The guy who knows how to keep the fight verticle, AND, knows enough to target one bomber at a time??? Now thats a guy a fight with I relish.

humble · « **Reply #47 on:** December 12, 2007, 06:24:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
The spitfire goes for the HO, then you do not and only fire on a high deflection shot? Where's the fight in that? That's just jousting. You did a skid to throw off his ho shot while you could take yours from a safer position. You never know when the guy is starting to realize your nose is facing him and he might pull off to avoid a ho, only to be ho'd by you.

You want a good fight, earn it by getting behind your opponents 3/9 line first, then take your shot. That's a good fight, and not just a kill.

I'm curious....

There is absolutely zero specific skill involved in gaining the 3/9 line in a fight outside of a same plane duel with a guns cold merge...and even then the concept of gaing the 3/9 line actually dumbs down the fight by removing legitimate mid game options.

To make a blanket statement regarding a given pilots intentions is ludicrous. The moment the spit (or any plane) points his nose at you he's creating a specific fight by taking his angle off to roughly zero (actually 180). In a disimiliar plane "merge" there is no reason at all to give him a free pass or grant a positional advantage do to misplaced "ettiquete".

It's often more skillful ACM to create a non tracking FQ or "T" shot then it is to simply pull the stick to your belly to "gain" an imaginary skill victory in a MA enviornment. If the other guy is gonna joust then sticking a lance in him is certainly appropriate:aok

hubsonfire · « **Reply #48 on:** December 12, 2007, 06:51:49 PM »

Not to mention that trying to get into a turning fight with the sole intention of waiting until you're dead six to shoot in a many vs 1 situation is probably not very smart. You do that, and chances are you're not going to get a good fight, or a kill.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #49 on:** December 13, 2007, 04:31:57 AM »

the perfect example is when 50% or more are on channel 200 whining about lame play....along comes batfink with 20 mins to play, needs a quick fight..

notice the whine on 200, asks anyone if they want a quick duel in DA.....no one wants to.

and the personal touch, just for NB -

Storch was moaning constantly, so i asked him personaly, he said he wouldnt go to DA with me if his balls were on fire and i had the only bucket of water..or something like that

zoozoo · « **Reply #50 on:** December 13, 2007, 05:42:04 AM »

I bet i can win 5 on 1, me in b17`s. And teh dweebs in 262`s.

P47Gra · « **Reply #51 on:** December 13, 2007, 08:48:08 AM »

Extending in a fast turning Spit is different than extending in a Pony.

Spits turn better! Stay in the fight longer! DUH

Ponies dont turn very good so you need to extend out to stay in a good fight! Double Duh

If you need further explanation, please ask Skyrock. I am out!

JUGMAN

whiteman · « **Reply #52 on:** December 13, 2007, 11:30:26 AM »

WWM, you forgot to add the guys in the 190's picking guys landing after running half a sector away. I got a whole squad that i thought played for the fight on my watermelon list.

I like the guys that de-ack the field so they can vulch then they fly over the field only to dive to kill the guns that pop or the one guy trying to up.

waystin2 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 13, 2007, 12:08:16 PM »

I have had maybe 3-4 "good fights" since I began AH about 6 months ago. Everything else was just killing the enemy. Interestingly enough, both types of fights bring the same enjoyment! The best fights are not staged, and happen quite by accident. It is not the best idea to come on the boards thumping your chest about "good fights". What a "good fight" is seems to be open to interpretation, and this tends to open you up to the flametards. A good fight is best handled by between the pilots involved, and perhaps some friendly chat on 200 or private PM's on the boards.

Oink

Fianna · « **Reply #54 on:** December 13, 2007, 12:18:46 PM »

If it ends in a rolling scissors, it was a good fight.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #55 on:** December 13, 2007, 01:44:34 PM »

if the rolling scissors lasts longer than 2 complete revolutions.....you are equal pilots.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #56 on:** December 13, 2007, 04:45:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by zoozoo
I bet i can win 5 on 1, me in b17`s. And teh dweebs in 262`s.

So whats the secret when all 5 are coming at you from different directions?

But your just funning me right zoo?

2fly · « **Reply #57 on:** December 14, 2007, 02:03:09 PM »

What is a good fight?

I have two types of "good fights". Anytime I land 4+ kills it was a good fight. Or maybe I should say a good "Flight". But that isnt really what you mean.

A true good fight is one where either it's a fairly even fight between similiar aricraft with similiar energy states at the start OR one where you totally beat the odds. 3or4 Vs 1 and you win for example. Or you fly your paper zeke into the middle of a huge furball and turn and burn for 10 miniutes and live to tell about it.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #58 on:** December 15, 2007, 03:15:32 AM »

I believe that the getting behind your opponents 3/9 line does mean more than taking an initial glancing shot on the merge and getting a kill. Everyone has their personal preferences/opinions and will fight how they choose. I personally will not take a frontal shot unless the person I'm fighting is attempting to or has tried to take a frontal shot. I know I'll continue to pay for it and I'll be pissed as hell at the person who did it but that's life.

My personal opinion for what constitutes a great fight is being able to defend yourself when you have the disadvantage (alt/E, turning, guns,ect..)and still come out with a kill. I like to push the envelope in the Mustang and P-40 and beat planes that I shouldn't be able to beat in a turn fight or energy fight. Sometimes I win sometimes I lose but majority of the time I feel that these fights are the best that I could ever come by.

The only thing that really frustrates me about the MA when it comes to fights is when your engaged and fighting outside of the strengths of your aircraft and once you get the upper hand someone chooses to pick you. Granted I'm fair game because I've left my self vunerable but how many times will you find a Mustang that consistantly engages in turn fighting with zeeks, spits, la7s, Yaks, N1Ks, F4Us, Ki84s and such? Why interrupt a fight in which one plane clearly has the tools to win and yet is being beaten at their own game by a less capable aircraft in that field of fighting?

ColKLink · « **Reply #59 on:** December 15, 2007, 07:04:48 AM »

I think alot of flyers don't really understand that "vulching" is a kings sport, not ment for the mass's.