Author Topic: I'm no Snaphook (Read 1076 times)

toonces3 · « **on:** December 19, 2007, 12:41:44 AM »

I've been sorta bored with the game lately, so I've been trying to give every plane in the planeset a chance. Last night (tonight as I write this) I took up the A-20. Having seen Snaphook fly this beast in fighter mode, I know it can be done. But, I didn't have even a fraction of the success!

I also saw some dude named Cobia spank me and a handful of others in mid-war one night.

I'm trying to figure out how to be effective in it. I realize it's not a typical fighter- there's alot of mass on that plane. I noticed that it has great diving and zoom climb potential. A few times I pointed my nose at a plane I wanted to get to, and the plane will move very quickly downhill to it. However, on blowing a pass, I don't see what a good follow up move is. Defensively it seems to be a difficult plane to do much in.

I had a P-51 come in about 2-3k above me, and he ate my lunch in short order.

Just looking for some tips. Obviously this isn't going to be the uber-fighter, and I expect to lose alot of fights, but I wouldn't mind landing a few scalps too. I got two last night, but they were, unfortunately, blatent HO's I'm ashamed to admit.

zmeg · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:58:22 AM »

Rule #1- Never attack a Hog
Rule #2- See rule #1

Saxman · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:05:45 AM »

It can be done, but it's generally going to boil down to:

A) How good is the pilot in the A-20

B) How bad are the targets

Oh, and zmeg pretty much covers it.

toonces3 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:33:38 AM »

Pfft, I was on my twisty stick, and had a belly full of 500 lb'ers. I 'almost' had you!

LOL. That was a pretty quick fight though, huh?

humble · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:07:31 AM »

I fly it "light", no ords and 50% fuel....so if your lugging presents and fuel its even tougher to figure out. Start with 50% or even 25% if the action is close by....

Optimum alt for the A-20 is in the 12k range. I almost never get higher then 15k. The Havoc is a bit contrarian to fly in that your matching up more to what the other guy does then what the A-20 can do. It actually likes a climbing rolling scissors type fight best and alot of what you see is some form of climbing reverse. The A-20 is on rails thru most of its flight envelope so its very stable, forgiving and using WW's term "smooth".

It responds very well to fundemental BFM/ACM and needs to be flown on the "X" (semi verticals) get the thing flat and it dies quickly. It's got great rudder control and handles low speed high AoA conditions as well as anything in the game...and its got a sawzall in the nose.

BTW...dont attack a hog:D

Actually what makes a good hog driver tough is he knows his plane well. It takes time effort and understanding to make a hog sing so its tougher competition. Now if you have alt & E on the hog or any plane you can make life tough on them if they try and engage from the disadvantage.

I wrote up a blurb on the A-20 from my perspective. It's far from perfect but it might help you a bit...A-20

There are a bunch of films there in the same directly as well. If you read the blurb and look at a film or two hopefully it makes some sense.

Anytime your up if you see me on the roster feel free to hitch a ride or two.

Cheta · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2007, 09:36:50 AM »

toonces3

Next time your in the MA's look for "LTARhavc", PM him and see if he'll go to the DA or TA with you. You want to learn A-20 tactics, he's your man, and what's more.......he loves to share his skills (teach).

Used to be with the Rooks 2 or 3 years ago known as "Fiend".

toonces3 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2007, 11:41:48 AM »

I just spent the last hour going through some of those films.

I see what you mean about flying the X. You really keep the plane moving vertically every time you turn. One of the other things I noticed is that you're not always grabbing speed- interesting how slow you get those fights. Finally, I noticed that one of your favorite moves is to take the plane straight up and get down to stall speeds or less- sorta hang. Other planes have trouble following that move (but still try) and then you use rudder authority to control the 'fall' so that you end up in a position of advantage.

Good stuff. I'm not really in the league where I need to handicap myself with the A-20 to have 'fun' fights, but I might try spending more time in it as an attack bird and then mix it up off target.

Thanks Snaphook.

humble · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:39:02 PM »

The A-20 is a good plane to learn fundementals on. You can build a solid understanding of ACM that is easily transferable. The "low speed" verticals your looking at are the "high AoA" stuff you'll hear brought up at times. As speed decreases and a plane is held at the edge of a stall control surface authority and the inherant stability of the wing are tested. If the outer edge of the wing stalls 1st then you have a "tip stall". This potentially sudden departure requires alot of feel and control input to control. If the wing initially stalls closer to the fuselage the control surfaces on the wing have airflow as the wing stalls. The other variable is the amount of force the rudder and elevators can exert. The better rudder authority the better the plane can be controlled at unusual attitudes. The A-20 is one of the best planes in the game in this regard....far superior to the mossie and better IMO then even the 38...

toonces3 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2008, 12:22:48 PM »

Having flown a few more sorties in it-

What's the best attack profile to fly? So far, the majority of my deaths are from ripping parts off the plane during a dive or pullout. The plane just accelerates so darn quickly downhill that the time to aim is quite short.

Last night I was experimenting with this:
I fly to a vehicle base at about 10k, 200 IAS. Carrying wing and internal bombs. Select wing bombs, salvo 4. I try to pick out a target between the wing and nose, then go idle and up to burn off speed, then do a roll left inverted, put nose on target, then roll upright and drop.

I've been dropping at 6-7k or so, just as the target goes under the nose (and missing long every drop). Done properly, I get creaking on the dive but can do a slow pull out, keep all my parts, be moving 300+ IAS, and be too high for ack hits.

But, like I said, I'm not hitting anything. It's the speed more than anything that's getting me killed. I'm wondering if I need to come in lower or slower or what. Also, what is the aim point for a dive bomb attack.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2008, 12:37:49 PM »

Not to hijack or anything but I tried the A20 in attack mode last camp and plan to give it another go this camp. How do you know when the wing ords are selected vs. the internal ords?

SlapShot · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2008, 12:38:33 PM »

I don't care what your in ... in a 1 v 1 against Cobia when he is in an A-20, you had better bring your "A+ game" ... else you will feel the wrath of the "sawsall".

Solar10 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:31:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Not to hijack or anything but I tried the A20 in attack mode last camp and plan to give it another go this camp. How do you know when the wing ords are selected vs. the internal ords?

Bomb bay is always first bomb selection.

Solar10 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:35:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by toonces3
Having flown a few more sorties in it-

I've been dropping at 6-7k or so, just as the target goes under the nose (and missing long every drop). Done properly, I get creaking on the dive but can do a slow pull out, keep all my parts, be moving 300+ IAS, and be too high for ack hits.

But, like I said, I'm not hitting anything. It's the speed more than anything that's getting me killed. I'm wondering if I need to come in lower or slower or what. Also, what is the aim point for a dive bomb attack.

I don't fly the A-20 much but I do fly the Mosquito a lot.

When I dive bomb I let bombs go at D600 - D400. You don't miss that way.

I would suggest coming in at about 3K and fly straight over target and split S on top of them. You also need to start much slower.

humble · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:37:45 PM »

No question that Cobia (and WW) are the "gold standard" for A-20 drivers...

Throttle/speed control is really the steepest part of the learning curve. Just like a spit or a hog its easy to get it going too fast in a fight.

toonces3 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:53:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Not to hijack or anything but I tried the A20 in attack mode last camp and plan to give it another go this camp. How do you know when the wing ords are selected vs. the internal ords?

The first thing I do when I spawn on the runway is hit backspace once. Then I know that my wings are selected for the first run. Also, I don't have to try to remember 20 minutes into my flight if I selected my wings or not.

I wouldn't mind a few more tips on dive bombing in it. The A-20 is too big and too slow to go plowing over a field at 3k. Flak will eat me alive.