How's the Kyoto treaty thing going?

[Ripsnort]

Heh, well, I remember a few on this board slamming the ol' US of A.

One would think that countries that committed to the Kyoto treaty are doing a better job of curtailing carbon emissions. One would also think that the United States, the only country that does not even intend to ratify, keeps on emitting carbon dioxide at growth levels much higher than those who signed.

And one would be wrong.

The Kyoto treaty was agreed upon in late 1997 and countries started signing and ratifying it in 1998. A list of countries and their carbon dioxide emissions due to consumption of fossil fuels is available from the U.S. government. If we look at that data and compare 2004 (latest year for which data is available) to 1997 (last year before the Kyoto treaty was signed), we find the following.

* Emissions worldwide increased 18.0%.
* Emissions from countries that signed the treaty increased 21.1%.
* Emissions from non-signers increased 10.0%.
* Emissions from the U.S. increased 6.6%.

In fact, emissions from the U.S. grew slower than those of over 75% of the countries that signed Kyoto....

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/12/kyoto_schmyoto.html

Oh, and you can verify the numbers here:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/comparative_international_statistics/climate_environment/

[Holden McGroin]

That cannot be possible.  The USA is responsible for all that is bad in the world.

Both your links are obviously paid off by Exxon/Mobile

[Tac]

i believe the point of the kyoto treaty was to control and reduce based on each country's development.

numbers can mean anything really.. looking at that chart I see that the developing nations that signed the treaty increased emissions while the US did too. clumping a whole lot of countries together into a 21% and comparing it to a 6% of the US only shows the US, as 1 country, still increased its output by about 1/3rd of the total amount of all other nations clumped together.

[LePaul]

The big point of Kyoto that is a joke is this:  India and China, the bigger polluters, are exempt.  Kyoto is simply a big-pile of how the USA is the source of all their woes.  

We can cut our emissions without their help.  We sent rovers to Mars, men to the moon....our ingenuity will sort it out, without this political farce.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by LePaul
The big point of Kyoto that is a joke is this:  India and China, the bigger polluters, are exempt.

From the same source Ripsnort posted:

Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide

World Total    28,192.74
--------------------------
United States 5,956.98
China 5,322.69
Russia 1,696.00
Japan 1,230.36
India 1,165.72
Germany  844.17
Canada  631.26
United Kingdom  577.17
Korea, South  499.63
Italy          466.64
Iran          450.68
France            415.27
Saudi Arabia  412.35
Australia  406.64
Mexico          398.25
Spain          387.11
Brazil          360.57
Indonesia  359.47

Source:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/tableh1co2.xls

[ROC]

Interesting.

This guy right here  is debunking the myth that a single volcano produces more CO2 than all the cars we drive.

Now, he quotes some good sources, and has a great argument, actually going on to prove that we produce 12 times more gas than a single volcano.  Pretty proud of his efforts, except that he shoots his argument in the foot.

There are between 50 and 70 eruptions annually.

Not counting those that occur under the ocean.

People thinking we have any control over the environment are delusional.  What we Do have is control over how we overcome the adverse environmental conditions, and being as cold as it is back east, I'm betting they wish the oil spigot was turned up a notch.

We have more forested areas in the continental US than at the time of Columbus.  Why?  Managed Forests.  They used to run rampant, now they are controlled.  We traded a natural emission for a man made and Productive emission that powers our nation.  Fair trade, equal output of gasses.

Think it through people, snow job occuring and our socialist leaders are not only buying into it but are driving it.

[john9001]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
From the same source Ripsnort posted:

Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide

World Total    28,192.74
--------------------------
United States 5,956.98
China 5,322.69
Russia 1,696.00
Japan 1,230.36
India 1,165.72
Germany  844.17
Canada  631.26
United Kingdom  577.17
Korea, South  499.63
Italy          466.64
Iran          450.68
France            415.27
Saudi Arabia  412.35
Australia  406.64
Mexico          398.25
Spain          387.11
Brazil          360.57
Indonesia  359.47

Source:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/tableh1co2.xls [/B]

how do they measure that? Is it a estimate, a computer model, a guess?

that's pretty accurate, 5,956.98, are they sure it's not . 96 or .99?

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by john9001
how do they measure that? Is it a estimate, a computer model, a guess?

probably estimate based on consumption of fossil fuels with some adjustment for efficiency of technologies used, country env. regs, etc...

Originally posted by john9001
that's pretty accurate, 5,956.98, are they sure it's not . 96 or .99?

The numbers are in millions, so 5,956.98 is actually 5,956,980.00.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by ROC
Pretty proud of his efforts, except that he shoots his argument in the foot.

He did use "Average amount of CO2 released by volcanoes/year: 110 million tons.". (Note volcanoes/year)

[Gunslinger]

lets not forget to mention all the european countrys that signed the treaty and failed in their goals. They actually have to pay a fine in the billions of dollars.  Kyoto is a sham nothing more!

It's environmental impact is minimal were as it's economic impact is huge!

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
They actually have to pay a fine in the billions of dollars.

Who's collecting the money?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by john9001
how do they measure that? Is it a estimate, a computer model, a guess?

that's pretty accurate, 5,956.98, are they sure it's not . 96 or .99?

I might suggest finding a .... ummm ... better source than your skepticism to challenge it. Just a suggestion. Makes a really better argument.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Who's collecting the money?

honestly i'm not sure

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS252US253&q=kyoto+fines

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
honestly i'm not sure

where the enforcement branch has determined that the emissions of a Party have exceeded its assigned amount, it must declare that that Party is in non-compliance and require the Party to make up the difference between its emissions and its assigned amount during the second commitment period, plus an additional deduction of 30%.  In addition, it shall require the Party to submit a compliance action plan and suspend the eligibility of the Party to make transfers under emissions trading until the Party is reinstated.

http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/compliance/introduction/items/3024.php

[Gunslinger]

even more proof that I think Kyoto is the worlds biggest environmental scam.

Short of that the second biggest would be recylcing as a whole.  (note:  certain materials are the exception Aluminum, paper, copper, ect)