Author Topic: Dealing with high cons  (Read 592 times)

Offline WWM

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Dealing with high cons
« on: December 22, 2007, 12:35:48 PM »
I hope to help some people with this and hope that any trainers may correct any mistakes or add to as needed.

    I see, several times, guys trying to climb directly up or at a sharp angle to "get" a high con.  Thursday I seen 2 P38's collect 8 kills apiece by simply hovering over 7 or 8 cons and picking them as they struggled to get to their altitude.   I know the drive to "Get that SOB" is high and makes you want to take the shortest route to them but most of the time that steep route will land you right back in the tower.

    When going after cons like this take off in a direction away from them.  They probably won't notice you as they will be licking their chops on the ones directly under them.  Fly out away from them and up to their alt out of icon range.  When you are at their alt you can turn back to them and by the time you get to them you can be slightly above at full speed.
     I have seen numerous cons hanging over friendlies but when two of us go out, get alt, and come back they usually make a rapid retreat.

I know it is hard to do because of the high drive of wanting to hurry up and get to them.  I have found myself back in the tower many times because of it, but next time try taking a little time and getting the edge on them.  It is quite funny to see them run even if you don't get the kill.

WWM
Jay12

Offline Hawk55

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 01:47:47 PM »
Excellently said!  Couldn't agree more.:aok
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Offline Saxman

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 02:32:42 PM »
Another option that I find can be quite effective at forcing them to neutralize their own alt advantage, ESPECIALLY if the opponent is new or just plain skilless (so it'll work on about 95% of the guys in the Mains ;) ). This works best if you have at least 2-3000yds of starting separation:

Match their course heading and give them your six. Enter a shallow climb to start working your way up to their altitude. The bandit will most likely enter a dive to drop in on you. He may or may not assume that you've seen him, however this is unimportant.

Wait for the enemy to close to within 1000-1500yds. Enter a hard low Yo-yo at max power and WEP: You don't need to Split-S, but somewhere between that and a level break will work. Ideally, you want to avoid the Split-S because you'll shed too much altitude on the break, and the level break will bleed off too much E, and may not get you clear of his guns. The idea is you want to get yourself out of line with your opponent and at an angle where he can't depress the nose enough to get a shot.

IMMEDIATELY upon pulling through the bottom of your maneuver pick up your opponent's position. This is where their skill level comes into play: Most newbies or skilless picking tards will have made their attack run at full power and, if not compressed, will have significantly overshot and will now be below you fighting to pull out of their dive. They're going to be blowing a TON of E in the process. You want to go vertical here. Put your opponent at the top of your canopy and keep him there as your come over the top of your loop. If he makes a break to the left or right roll to keep him centered. If all goes as planned you'll have reversed and will now be in a shooting position.

Your options are more limited if your opponent is able to keep his airspeed down and doesn't overshoot the dive. Most likely he'll be heading back up in a zoom climb. If you have sufficient altitude and you believe the fight will be untenable use this as an opportunity to egress. He'll lose a lot of separation while he's zooming and you may be able to get out and not present him another chance.

Alternately, you can pull back up into a shallow climb and force him to repeat the process. With enough starting altitude, you can generally force a neutral E state if your opponent doesn't wait to recover at his original altitude: eventually he'll just run out of steam.

I've used both methods with great success against most of the plane set. Typhoons and Tempests seem to be the only ones that this doesn't work well against, however those two aircraft have an irritating ability to seemingly instantaneously rotate more than 90 degrees in place even at 500mph.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline WWM

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 05:02:01 PM »
I agree Saxman.. thank you for adding.  I've been finding that most of the high cons just circling and waiting for an easy kill are more seasoned and won't fall for that as easily.  I usually find the P38's are a little more seasoned and won't let you pull them down.  51's and 190's you have a better chance of running into a less skilled pilot.  Tiffies are a toss up.
Jay12

Offline TequilaChaser

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 06:17:50 PM »
WWM,
another thing to think of when seeing/viewing you r above described scenario is......
extend out away as you have suggest and get right near or just pst DOT range.then pick up some extra speed.....on your reverse to come back into the fight....
fly at a shallow dive toward the alt of the guys being picked off from the hovering Pickers on the perch......as you are flying back toward them fly a tad shy of perpendicular to the other prey that are being picked off by the ropes.....
this should hide your closure rate from the ones sitting up high picking the others off...use gentle low G turns toward them as you get nearer and with in icon range, still in a slight shallow dive...
with practice you will be re entering the mix with an a bundence of speed to where once you get in the mix and start to climb up you will be able to climb right up the Six of those P38's 190's 109's etc.... that are playing the Roping game on all the other victims...and will foil their roping attempts.......

The key here is to practice hiding your Extra E & Closure rate by using the slight dive ( so it goes almost un noticeable to the Hoverers ) along with flying at an angle a tad Less than perpendicular toward the fight....

If you fly directly toward the fight your clousre rate will be a taletale sign that you are hording a bunch of speed,  flying on a non direct path as suggest hides this closure rate and makes it look as if you are at a normal speed.....

Good Luck hope this can be of use to ya :aok
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline WWM

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 06:27:02 PM »
Sounds like TC needs to do a de-roper/percher clinic for us all:D

Thank you for the input TC!  Seriously, I would like to do some training time on it.
Jay12

Offline Trog

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 09:16:32 PM »
Dang great ideas guys, but alot of work. Try upping from a nearby base. Alt x, set climb speed to 200, go take a leak, grab a beer, give the wife/girlfreind a kiss and when you come back you are co-alt. Level take a swig of beer and go to town on the bogs.

Btw, the best reversals in the game that i have seen so far are from BatfinkV. So, if you don't want the lazy method grab a few of his films that are all around,  learn the move, practice the move and start working at showing your tail to all them high alt bogs.
Trog
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Offline LilMak

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 09:16:45 PM »
My favorite is similar to what TequilaChaser said. I like to extend and get a TON of speed while the ropers are doing their thing. I come back in a shallow dive UNDER the picking enemies. Hiding my E as I go. They feel safe if you come in under them and are less likely to bug out. They will usually try the same rope that they've been using for the cons that have been trying to climb to them. I then zoom straight up their six. By the time they realize that I'm gaining on them it's too late and they're back in the tower. This is especially effective with planes that zoom well but don't hang on the prop for long (think P-47, or F4U).
"When caught by the enemy in large force the best policy is to fight like hell until you can decide what to do next."
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P-47 pilot 56th Fighter Group.

Offline AirFlyer

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Dealing with high cons
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2007, 12:38:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
Another option that I find can be quite effective at forcing them to neutralize their own alt advantage, ESPECIALLY if the opponent is new or just plain skilless (so it'll work on about 95% of the guys in the Mains ;) ). This works best if you have at least 2-3000yds of starting separation:

Match their course heading and give them your six. Enter a shallow climb to start working your way up to their altitude. The bandit will most likely enter a dive to drop in on you. He may or may not assume that you've seen him, however this is unimportant.

Wait for the enemy to close to within 1000-1500yds. Enter a hard low Yo-yo at max power and WEP: You don't need to Split-S, but somewhere between that and a level break will work. Ideally, you want to avoid the Split-S because you'll shed too much altitude on the break, and the level break will bleed off too much E, and may not get you clear of his guns. The idea is you want to get yourself out of line with your opponent and at an angle where he can't depress the nose enough to get a shot.

IMMEDIATELY upon pulling through the bottom of your maneuver pick up your opponent's position. This is where their skill level comes into play: Most newbies or skilless picking tards will have made their attack run at full power and, if not compressed, will have significantly overshot and will now be below you fighting to pull out of their dive. They're going to be blowing a TON of E in the process. You want to go vertical here. Put your opponent at the top of your canopy and keep him there as your come over the top of your loop. If he makes a break to the left or right roll to keep him centered. If all goes as planned you'll have reversed and will now be in a shooting position.

Your options are more limited if your opponent is able to keep his airspeed down and doesn't overshoot the dive. Most likely he'll be heading back up in a zoom climb. If you have sufficient altitude and you believe the fight will be untenable use this as an opportunity to egress. He'll lose a lot of separation while he's zooming and you may be able to get out and not present him another chance.

Alternately, you can pull back up into a shallow climb and force him to repeat the process. With enough starting altitude, you can generally force a neutral E state if your opponent doesn't wait to recover at his original altitude: eventually he'll just run out of steam.

I've used both methods with great success against most of the plane set. Typhoons and Tempests seem to be the only ones that this doesn't work well against, however those two aircraft have an irritating ability to seemingly instantaneously rotate more than 90 degrees in place even at 500mph.


Hrmm, a low yo-yo instead of a split-s. I like it, I'll try it out next time I get a chance to fly, I always used to do the split-s's but this could work better. Thanks for the tip. :aok
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