Help avoiding surprise HO

[Anaxogoras]

I try very hard to avoid head-on shots, giving and receiving them.  Between yesterday and today, I was shot down 3 times, and all by head-on shots that I tried to avoid with very similar circumstances:

1.  I have more e and dive on bad guy's 6 from about 2.5-3k yards away, a great scenario.

2.  He reverses in the vertical

3.  Either because of monitor resolution (I use 1024), or the large units with which distance is measured, or because I'm focussed on tracking his movement, I don't see that he intends to HO me.

4.  Bad guy starts firing at me while holding very high AoA, almost vertical

5.  I die.

I could whine that it was a Spit16 that did this to me all 3 times, but I've seen other aircraft like Nik's, F4u's and La-7s try the same tactic.

I know that what these bad guy's are doing is lousy acm, but I need advice on how to detect their intention to HO.  I'm not even sure 1280 res would help, but icon distances in smaller units would probably do the trick.  Is this possible?  For example, instead of 2.5k, the icon would read 2500 and could also read 2499, and so on.  I already know that alt-i cycles through icon settings, but this is not what i'm looking for.

[crockett]

First of if they are going to go vertical into your dive he is most likely a noob. Reason I say it's noobish on their end, is because they are putting them self into a very stupid position where it "will" be a HO pass.

Why put yourself in a situation that you only have 50% chance of living? In most cases I see guys in Nikki's trying to pull this off. The better solution on their end would be to roll out and try to reverse on you when you dive through. However if they are trying to HO you it's a good chance they lack any sort of good ACM skills. So use that to your advantage.

If you are the guy diving in, it's very simple, don't dive on someone from a position that allows them to go vertical on you. In a situation that I think the guy might try to do a vertical HO on me I tend to do one of three things.

1) get much closer to him prior to diving in so he doesn't have room to go vertical.

2) dive in from behind him (which he will likely avoid but might help you set up another move)

3) just rope the dope.. Give him a teaser and let him think he can climb to you, then dive in you you see he's hit his stall point. (likely the safest method)

[Connery]

Lots of players do it - including the "good" ones....

Then you have your other tactics like cherrypicking, all very lame BUT if everyone fought low and slow on the deck I'd be the best so these guys gotta get their kills somehow buhahahaha

On a serious note, you will get used to it eventually I still even find it difficult to see when they've pulled the move you're describing.

and now time for bed   gnite

[Rino]

You need to pay more attention to the rate of closure.  My eyesight is
not what it once was, but I know when the - starts dropping fast he has
revved or broken from the pass.

[Anaxogoras]

Of course a lot of players who do it are noobs, but there are others who are definitely not.  Some of them are great shots and willing to risk it if they can get their nose pointed at you.  All it requires is an aircraft that can do a tail stand while firing, and the Spit16 is a great choice for that.

Crockett, #1 seems like a good suggestion.  Thanks.

Btw, come to think of it, the coloring of the Spit is what makes it really hard to pick out its orientation when you're above it.  I don't have the same problem with aircraft that aren't olive-green.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has trouble seeing their reversal path.

[A8balls]

The biggest problem with a HO is a person's attitude towards the use of it. The primary objective of anyone in flight is to 1. stay alive and 2. shoot down your opponent(s). I believe we are all in agreement here.
When we try to label someones ACM as "lame", "dweeb-ish" and such, we are telling ourselves that the HO doesn't deserve to be understood or practiced. There are players that have the HO down to an art. They choose heavily protected A/C, like the P40/47, and HO with a known "lighter" plane with smaller caliber ammo. The outcome tilts in their favor greatly.
While the HO is considered a lame ACM move by most, it can be very effective. An effective ACM move is a good ACM move and needs to be respected as such. After all... you did fall victim to it 3 times already.

[WWM]

Most people I know despise being B&Z'ed. It's like a gnat flying around your face.   If someone is doing this to me and bleeding my E down to where I can't get a decent reversal shot then the gloves come off.  I will point my nose at you and I will shoot.  If I loose the 50/50 I will get a new plane and hunt you down from a higher alt.  Just me though.  Gloves come off on vulchers also.

[Arlo]

I can't understand how it's a "surprise." If a plane faced me and I faced it, I could see him coming and I expected him to shoot (whether I felt inclined to or not). But I had rudder pedals (I reckon a twisty stick'll suffice) and a knack for slipping one way or the other and preparing to wing up and around on his tail when he was in shock from the "best tactic in the world" failing. Of course, if he wasn't that inexperienced, it was on. Then a head-on was the least of my worries.

[Anaxogoras]

Some of you need to read my language more carefully.

I'm not complaining about dweebs.  I'm not complaining that people try to ho me.  Far from it.  In fact, just today when someone tried it I saw it in time and pulled off, and as the bad guy was hanging on his tail a friendly blasted him.

The point was that I actually don't see the reverse; I can't visually tell that they're reversing.  This isn't about psychology and my expectation that they will or will not go for an ho shot.  For instance, Arlo is simplying assuming that both pilots know they're facing each other.

WWM's point is pretty funny.

[Sloehand]

As an answer to your real concern, not seeing the reversal, that is why there is a Zoom command.

When I engaging an opponent and I am further than 1-1.5K away, I hit the Zoom key (mapped on my stick) so that I can watch what the bandit is doing.  It's set to different zoom levels depending upon my aircraft as I don't want 100% full zoom, usually around 75-80%.

Anyway, upon getting close enough to see the bandit's wings without Zoom I pop back into default view mode.  I often pop in and out of Zoom on the closure to do a 360 check for bandits on me, then back on my target.

I never, ever shoot from Zoom mode, as I hear some people do.  Visual shake is too pronounced that way.

As for the HO situation described, you never mentioned what the planes were, which might factor in deciding to do a vertical HO or not.  Also, the tactical situation is important to know such as were you alone in the countryside 1 v 1, or were you or your opponent possibly defending a base with others and outnumbered?  All this can determine why someone who knows how to fly and reason tactically might decide to do a vertical HO.

For example, last night I popped Paccer in his uber Tempest as he dove on me from 5K+ above and behind.  This also occured over my base while under attack from a CV for the better part of an hour, with Paccer and a couple others bringing non-naval planes occasionally from an adjacent base.  When we all saw the Tempest we knew it was Paccer as he'd gotten shot down several times previously off the carrier.

At that moment I was in a HurriC at 2K or so near our base.  Our guns were equal (4 Hispano's each, which also is a factor) and, knowing he would scream in and do some unbelievable turn in his Uber plane to follow my evasion (it's just about his only trade in stock), I decided to go for the 50-50 engagement.   I waited and watched carefully as he closed from 5K away.  At first I played like I was jus barely turning and at the same time trying tp climb slowly to get alt, but early on I went nose down in the turn, re-gaining speed and watching him all the way.

As he fully committed to the attack, I pulled down/around and up into him with plenty of E to hold for a steady shot at 800m and blasted him out of the sky.  I suffered a lost landing gear in return, a nice trade in my book, being close over my base.

This is not something I do often, but is just one trick in my book that I use when the time is right.

And in actuality, I don't consider this a true HO merge.  This is answering an unavoidable attack with a reversal to a front-to-front aspect shot for both planes.  To me, an HO situation is defined by both planes holding front aspect on each other for 2 or 3 seconds at the opening of an engagement, with little or no initial advantage to either plane.

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by Anaxogoras

I know that what these bad guy's are doing is lousy acm, but I need advice on how to detect their intention to HO.  I'm not even sure 1280 res would help, but icon distances in smaller units would probably do the trick.  Is this possible?  For example, instead of 2.5k, the icon would read 2500 and could also read 2499, and so on.  I already know that alt-i cycles through icon settings, but this is not what i'm looking for.

is it lousy ACM? maybe.

is it a smart move VS a high alt bogey that surely will not stick around to fight but wait high above and kill them when they are fighting something else? definitely.


i try and think of more than the simple 'we should not HO rule' when i consider what the enemy is going to do.

1) where is the fight?

if you are near the enemy base and you are fighting from advantage that you dont intend to give away at all then most people will take a head on in the vertical as you describe, simply to get rid of you. If they die they you are right by their airfield, no bother to them. if you get hit you have to RTB and take along time to get back and annoy them. whenever i am in the possition above the enemy and i intend to slaughter them without risk to myself, i always assume that they will take any shot possible. Unless they give you the shot you are looking for you must avoid any chance of being shot yourself and reset the possition.

2) what are the odds?

personaly i will not take a head on shot ever, only because i prefer to work for a shot that gives no risk to my aircraft. despite this the obvious time to take 'any shot you get' is when you are outnumbered. if your team is rolling the enemy over and whooping their butts, you must expect foul play and be extra vigilant about making proper gun solutions and avoiding head ons.

3) what are they flying?

they flying a hurricane 2c? well dont expect them not to HO you, they know they wont be able to catch you for a six shot. only sense.

4) what are you flying?

you in the C202? hmm yup those la7s and niks are going to be very afraid of hoing you...hehe..extra vigilant again.


Avoiding the head on.

dont pull away too early, pulling away at 500 yrds is infact making the head on shot a fair shot, on you. the sooner you oull away the more time the HO'er has to correct their aim and shoot you.

don't offer them a big target. the best defence for avoiding a close range HO that i can found is to 'jink' just as they open fire but motly still give them the slim front profile. most people who HO are bad shots anyhow.

Winning the head on.

you are going to ho? well you ahve to be ready and 100% certain.  you hold fire wondering to ho or not and then decide to after they open fire then youre going to get burnt even if you hit them.

so make that choice every time you see a con flying at you. Will I or will i not HO this con.  if the answer is no, dont even tempt them with a ho target. if the answer is yes, then balst them first and hit them good.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Anaxogoras
For instance, Arlo is simplying assuming that both pilots know they're facing each other.

Range numbers ticking down pretty fast probably means the bad guy is flying toward you (just give side-slipping a try, k?). Numbers ticking lower slowish like probably means you're catching up with his tail. Numbers increasing probably means bad guy is leaving you behind. Not seeing any range numbers probably means you have that setting disabled.

Good luck.

[FireDrgn]

Someone can only take the shot u give them.... Use a differant merge or ACM tatic. If u fly infront of someones guns more that not they are going to pull the trigger.  More so if they think thats all they are going to get.

Im not trying to sound personal but you have to change the way u think. Then the way u fly..

You need to visit Murdr 's  website and watch some of his videos. He has the ability to help u change the way u think about acm and merges.. check out the "whymerge" videos.

[Yeager]

Rarely do you hear any of the honchos (hot sticks) complain about Head On shots.  Thats because they know how to a) Employ them b) Defeat them

HO whiners are a miserable lot.

[Anaxogoras]

I'm not even going to reply to the "ho whiners" posts...  It shows a lack of reading comprehension, and a desire to interpret others as uncharitably as possible.

As it is, I really like the idea of using the zoom feature more.  I use it sometimes, but I'm not in the habit of using it to detect ho reversals.  Thanks for the tip.