Author Topic: Mosquito really did have a strange stall  (Read 2376 times)

Offline AquaShrimp

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« on: December 26, 2007, 08:53:15 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5ut3tP3ZM&feature=related

Check out the strange attitudes of this Mosquito before it crashed.  I always thought it was a flaw in Aces High that the plane handled like it did.  But apparently not.

Offline Karnak

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2007, 08:56:03 PM »
There was an engine issue involved in that crash, FYI.
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Offline AquaShrimp

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2007, 09:05:41 PM »
Yep, the plane does seem like the number 1 isn't producing as much power.

Offline Scherf

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2007, 10:16:18 PM »
Very possibly the most tasteless post in AH history.

If you want, I'll email you the accident investigation report, but only on condition you edit your post to read "AquaShrimp is a handsomehunk."
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline AquaShrimp

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2007, 11:27:53 PM »
Are you really upset over this post?  Maybe you shouldn't be playing a game where we pretend to kill each other.

Offline Viking

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 12:28:29 AM »
Scherf, that post isn't in bad taste at all. You are overreacting.


I don't think that stall looked strange at all considering he was almost inverted when he stalled it. The pilot recovered the plane after what looked like 1000-2000 feet. He just didn't have enough altitude to pull out of the dive.

Offline trotter

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 01:44:25 AM »
It does seem like he recovered with about 500 ft to go.

However, while not a tastless post, it is a tasteless title. We don't know what conditions caused the stall, as certainly someone with enough stick time in the plane to be flying it in an airshow wouldn't enter a spin after only approx 1,000 ft of vert zoom.

Offline parin

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 04:27:09 AM »
:(
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Offline AquaShrimp

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 06:30:38 PM »
The only reason I posted this was because I thought it provided information about a controversal subject in Aces High, that being the strange stalling characteristics of a few twin engined planes.

Offline humble

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2007, 07:04:08 PM »
Sadly warbird crashes arent that uncommon. Plenty of them on youtube alone. The reality is that more fighter pilots (on all sides) died in operational accidents then actual combat. This is seperate from training accidents. When the mustang 1st went into operational service with the RAF they had no 2 seat trainer, 2 of the first 5 pilots died on their orientation hop.

I read a book written by a 38 pilot in the MTO and he recounted his 1st solo flight in the 38 where he had to fly almost thru the crash of the plane infront of him as the poor guy burned to death just of the runway.

The simple reality is that these are very difficult planes to fly and current overall pilot quality is much lower in the sense that literally hundreds washed out for each front line fighter pilot, and many others perished early....so the survivors were exceptionally accomplished stick and throttle guys with razor sharp skills. As the Bob Hoovers of the world retired very few pilots actually meet that standard and more and more often they simply push the envelope further then their ability permits.

If in fact there was an engine problem then the poor guy deserved what he got if he felt it and kept on going. However it looks like he simply screwed the pooch to me...

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Offline Karnak

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2007, 07:12:07 PM »
Humble,

I suggest you read the definition of your handle.

The engine problem happened during the climb.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2007, 02:01:22 AM »
Quote
Very possibly the most tasteless post in AH history.


I disagree.  Naturally, we are saddened by what happened, but posting the video is clearly justified by its content.
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Offline Charge

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2007, 07:23:45 AM »
Engine problem or not it is notable how easily the plane starts to slide sideways nearly entering a flat spin.

The Mossie does not have too much side surface to counter slip and the smallness of rudder does not help either.

It is also notable that despite those factors the pilot is able to get it under control. Slightly more alt and he probably would have made it.


After watching a few of these WW2 warbird accidents it seems that quite a few happen in pull outs when they suddenly seem to run out of altitude. Obviously the pilots seem to miscalculate how much the a/c actually slips through the turn.

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Offline moot

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2007, 08:21:55 AM »
The AH mossie certainly is that much of a handful with one engine stopped.
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Offline Kweassa

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Mosquito really did have a strange stall
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2007, 08:39:38 AM »
Quote
Engine problem or not it is notable how easily the plane starts to slide sideways nearly entering a flat spin.

The Mossie does not have too much side surface to counter slip and the smallness of rudder does not help either.

It is also notable that despite those factors the pilot is able to get it under control. Slightly more alt and he probably would have made it.


 Those were my thoughts as well.

 While an engine trouble might effect a plane into entering a flat spin more easily than under normal conditions, especially during such a dangerous phase of flight as being at the apex of a loop, watching the mossie literally "slide sideways into an uncontrollable state so easily", as Charge puts it, seems to suggest the "weird" stalls in 110s or Mossies may not be so 'weird' after all.

 If an engine problem occured during the climb, the loss of power makes it impossible for the pilot to complete the loop, and therefore, puts the plane into a state of tail-sliding downwards. As a matter of fact such things happen quite frequently in some planes in AH2, an example being the Ki-84 and the Ta152.


((Note: Although many of the better pilots claim such things do not happen with these planes, they seem to forget just how easily us more mediocre pilots can push our planes into troublesome situations. The odds are, the veteran pilots don't notice problems because they avoid going into such situations in the first place, whereas we medicre guys, do quite often push the plane in the 'wrong manner', and therefore, demonstrate that in such circumstances indeed, the described dangerous flat spin does happen.

 Countless times, out of desparation. I've pushed Ki84s or Ta152 into a vertical, at which apex, I quite frequently lose control as normal airflow is lost, and the plane enters a tail-slide, which quickly evolves into a flat spin that is very difficult to pull out from.))

 
 Quoting the words of bozon, "once normal airflow is lost, anything can happen". If, a big IF, the above recorded incident was not an isolated one, but rather a rare footage of the tendency for planes with similar profiles as Mosquitos to fall into similar spins under extremely dangerous conditions, then it somehow makes sense.

 Come to think of it, the Ta152, P-38, Mosquito, and 110s, Spitfires and Ki84s - the planes in AH2 known to enter dangerous flat spins during harsh maneuvering -  all have a similar profile IMO.

* The wing area is relatively large for the size of the fuselage
* The fuselage is often very slim or slender, when compared to the overal size or length of the wings
 (elongated fuselage in the case of the Ta152, very slim and slender in the case of the 110, Mossy, and the P-38. The Ki-84 or Spitfires also have small fuselages compared to the size of the wings).
* The area of the side surface is also very small when compared to most other planes, like Charge has observed.
* The overall ratio of the plane's breadth (from wingtip to wingtip), to the length(from nose to tail), is also much larger than other planes.


 If there is something indeed wrong with how AH2 FM handles planes of these profile types, perhaps it is not completely wrong, but rather exaggerates an already natural tendency these sort of planes might actually do have in real life.




 My 2 cents.