Jerry Crandall's Dora book

[Geary420]

Moot, did you try asking on the LEMB?

[moot]

The response on those boards are usualy a little stiff, if there's any at all...  Bodhi and a few others have said they'd be looking into it, that's good enough.
Maybe I'll give the LEMB a try - unless you've already got some pull on the right LEMB users?

[Geary420]

Sorry bud, don't post there, just use it for research once in a while.  But I'm all for more 152 skins

[Charge]

Edward Schacklady's "Butcher Bird" has a sketch of an all yellow A6 claimed flown by von Graff in a training unit (Blindflugschule) when it was shot down in July 27th 1943.

Some TA sketches too but no yellow or orange variant. It was also mentioned that night fighter units painted their planes black and Mediterranean 190 trainers were sometimes all white.

If the yellow (or orange) is a Blingflugschule colour then I doubt any TAs were used by them.

One possibility of course are the prototypes which ranged from Ta152V6 to V28 (all registered as experimental) or S-1 trainer version from the production patch.

-C+

[Krusty]

Graff's yellow 190a has been since debunked. I read a bit about it a while ago.

[moot]

So has anyone found it yet?

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Krusty
Graff's yellow 190a has been since debunked. I read a bit about it a while ago.

Care to share where at?  Pierre Clostermann's book is pretty clear that this occured.  Of course his book may have one or two things wrong.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Fencer51
Care to share where at?  Pierre Clostermann's book is pretty clear that this occured.  Of course his book may have one or two things wrong.

You dare question the all knowing Krusty!?! He seems to be more than capable of just debunking anything he deems not right.

[moot]

Did you find that part on the orange paint scheme Bodhi?  It's supposed to have a profile of it, and some text explaining the reason it was painted that way.

[Bodhi]

Moot,

Got the book yesterday.  Found the orange-red Ta 152 on page 155.

It says:

On 22 March 1945, the Kommodore of JG 301, Obslt. Fritz Aufhammer climbed into his all Orange-Red Ta 152 that he had been evaluating, in order to return it to the Luftwaffe proving ground at Reichlin.  Because he felt uncomfortable flying a new type fighter that the trigger-happy Flak crews had not seen before, he ordered this Ta 152 to be painted a bright Orange-Red overall, including the spinner and over painting the JG 301 fuselage bands.  The only thing not overpainted were the national markings necessary for identification.

On this flight, Hptm. Roderich Cescotti was asked to fly escort in a FW 190 D-9 "Green 1".  The purpose of the trip was to return the Ta 152 ro Reichlin for adjustments, but more importantly to meet with engineers and officials from the Focke-Wulf factory to discuss the technical problems that were causing delivery delays in getting this new fighter to Aufhammer's JG 301.  After hearing one excuse after another, Obslt. Aufhammer had heard enough.  In a burst of anger and frustration he blurted out, "I don't care about your problems, you can kiss my prettythang!  I need these machines right now!"

On page 151 there is a excerpt page from Hptm. Roderich Cescotti's log book showing that he escorted Obslt. Aufhammer's Orange-Red Ta 152 to and from Reichlin on 22 March 1945.  They are listed in his log book as Flight Entry 1441 and 1442.

It seems to me that it existed as more than a prototype.  I guess the best way to find out if it saw combat would be to see Aufhammer's logbook from 13 March 1945 on.  

On page 152 it also mentions that on 13 March 1945, the promised 30 to 50 Ta 152's were not delivered due to production delays.  It also says that Aufhammer pulled the few Ta 152's from III Gruppe and reassigned them into a small unit designated the Stabsschwarm.


I will post scans later today.

[moot]

Thanks!
Did it say if it was armed?

[Bodhi]

No, it doesn't.  I'd suspect it probably was, but I figure that without looking at Aufhammer's log book we will never know.  The reason I think it was armed, is because of the earlier mentions of Ta 152's being pulled into one small unit on the 13th, while Aufhammer was taking the aircraft for adjustments at Rechlin on the 22nd.

Again, good bet it was, but so far impossible to verify.  It sure would be cool to see his log book though.

[Krusty]

Bodhi's smart-arse comment aside, there are many references to it online. The yellow Graff myth has been perpetuated in print in several cases. All of them seem to stem from a single French pilot's comments about thinking he saw an all-yellow 190. The thinking is that he got it wrong, and that the bright yellow cowling streaking past at full speed could look like more yellow.

All accounts of the yellow 190 come from this, or from direct references to this pilot's single account. It's never been substantiated by any other sources as having existed. Graff was a well known ace, and if he had really flown a bright yellow 190, there would be tons of proof. He was quite willing to customize his ride (tulips, orange cowl, lightning bolts on the sides, fuslage art, etc) but never anywhere has it been mentioned he had a yellow 190.

EDIT: I skinned 2 of his planes in AH. I did a lot of checking on the matter, being curious about the yellow 190, some year ago or more.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Krusty
Bodhi's smart-arse comment aside, there are many references to it online. The yellow Graff myth has been perpetuated in print in several cases. All of them seem to stem from a single French pilot's comments about thinking he saw an all-yellow 190. The thinking is that he got it wrong, and that the bright yellow cowling streaking past at full speed could look like more yellow.

All accounts of the yellow 190 come from this, or from direct references to this pilot's single account. It's never been substantiated by any other sources as having existed. Graff was a well known ace, and if he had really flown a bright yellow 190, there would be tons of proof. He was quite willing to customize his ride (tulips, orange cowl, lightning bolts on the sides, fuslage art, etc) but never anywhere has it been mentioned he had a yellow 190.

EDIT: I skinned 2 of his planes in AH. I did a lot of checking on the matter, being curious about the yellow 190, some year ago or more.

Krusty, because you can not find proof of it does not mean it does not exist.  I would believe a combat pilot that saw the aircraft far more than I would any others who either write about it, or claim to "research it".

Hell, you claim that the F6F-5P was not delivered with cannons, when in fact over a thousand were delivered to the UK.  


My comment is not smart prettythang, it is the truth.  You are right back to acting like a "know-it-all" again.  How many times is it going to take for you to realise that you are not a "expert" or a "historian".  It takes far more than casual gaming and skinning to become a historian, one of the chief requisites is: "never ruling out something without concrete proof that it is wrong."

[Krusty]

First, don't try twisting what I've said in an unrelatd thread. I never said F6F-P wasn't DELIVERED with cannons. I said almost none SERVED with 'em.

[EDIT: Oh, and you forget to note that I'm only quoting every resource there is, and even WW agrees on the matter of the F6F-Ps and 20mms]


Oh, and should I have to prove that MG151/20s weren't in the cowl guns of 109K-4s? Hrm.???


Should I have to prove that P-38s weren't painted black for daytime use in WW2? Hrm...????


Some things are so obvious and so commonly accepted. The yellow 190a Graff is a debunked myth. Just accept it. I dunno why YOU're getting so up-in-arms anyways.