something from Dogfights

[sullie363]

So I was just thinking about an episode of Dogfights from this season, I think the one titled "P-51 Mustang."  Anyway a P-51D is being chased by a 109 in a slightly descending right turn, at what speed they were at they didn't say.  What he did to evade I have been unable to duplicate in the game but he described it as this - pull the stick into your gut to stall the aircraft, kick full right rudder, then the engine torque will pull her back into something flyable and you recover a couple thousand feet later.  I'm just gonna assume somebody else saw this episode and remembers what I'm talking about and have tried to pull it off themselves.  So far all my attempts have resulted in the plane wiggling a little, but nothing like what the pilot described.  Easily attained to the left, just not to the right.

I believe the same episode also had a pilot in the same situation, being chased in a descending right turn, and the pilot snapped the mustang up and to the left, did an insta 360 spin and managed to land rounds on his pursuer.

[Geary420]

Check out the thread started by WideWing in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum.

[Bucky73]

Sullie...I watched that episode. I also haven't been able to replicate it. Also, in that episode (and please correct me if i'm wrong) that they said a p51 would "easily outturn a 109" ?!?! I have it DVR'd and will watch it again when I get home but I'm sure that is what I heard.

[Krusty]

That's the problem with interviewing somebody 60 years after the fact. They remember they pulled a move, but perhaps they're getting confused on what they did. Or perhaps the way "Dogfights" portrays it isn't historical (*gasp*! that'd be a first! -- no, wait, it wouldn't!)


Don't get me wrong, sometimes the show is interesting, but I wouldn't take it as gospel truth.

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by Bucky73
t they said a p51 would "easily outturn a 109" ?!?!

There's your first clue.

[Anaxogoras]

You mean you saw that on the Propoganda Channel?

Ok, ok, that's an exaggeration.  But I do find their war documentaries to be full of gross over-generalizations and sensationalism, and wouldn't believe everything I see there.

If you want to learn an interesting maneuver that you can do in AH, but would likely blind a pilot in real life, check out the P51 instability thread in the aircraft and vehicles forum.

[Bucky73]

So, just to clarify......We hound people endlessly when they say that the modelling of some of the planes in Aces is not accurate and claim they know nothing about these planes because they have never actually flown them. Then when they interview ACTUAL PILOTS of these planes we don't believe them?!?

makes sense........................ ............

[Krusty]

So, let me get this straight....

You believe everything the Discovery Channel tells you?

[Viking]

There are pilots who have flown both the P-51 and the 109:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by Viking
There are pilots who have flown both the P-51 and the 109:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94

My thoughts exactly, Viking.

[Yeager]

it really does not matter at all what an airplane does in the real world.  What matters is what the Flight Model does in the game.

The young man in that video seems to get all wet and excited like he has just been blessed with some sacred data from reality that proves some unmentioned point.

Bottom line: Its what happens in game that counts.  Learn the game, discard reality, because the two are mutually exclusive.

[miraj]

I love the series , it is great viewing.

Halfway through an episode , I cant help but log on to AH , and fly a couple sorties.

One thing though , those planes /pilots always SEEM to have more engine power than I ever do!

[Viking]

Oh yeah, the interviewers were clearly 109 enthusiasts, but that doesn't change what the real pilots said ... or what the real aircraft do.

[FTDEEP]

i hate to say this but i use this move alot.
someones on my six....i do a slow flat turn..letting them close,
about 400'to 600' i chop throttle, full rudder to slow down..nose on a 45 degree angle..half pulling up half right turn.
all the time eyes on overshooting target in my 6 view..
wings rolling over for s turn throttle up..begin firing.
this a very typical reversal move. or at least i thought so..

some ones on my 6 i do flat turns to burn thier E..if i dive to escape, they retain thier momentum for another BnZ.

happy flying.

[Krusty]

Yeager, the entire point of the game is that it is intended to mimic the reality of flying these planes. Otherwise we'd be in space with rail guns (oh wait, they did that too!).

HTC has put the bulk of all of their effort into making the planes fly as realistically as they can, from using war-time power vs post-war 150-octane on the Ki-84, to adjusting the plane balancing (removing weapons options from certain planes).

Despite this, there are still many areas where HTC might have taken the best guess they could and still got things wrong. For a while (all of AH1 and much of AH2) the P-51D in Aces High was a tight-turning flap-popping stall fighter.

I agree that the guys in the video almost piss themselves with glee, but there are many resources (people) that have flown both planes. Even Chuck Yeager got to fly several german birds at the end of the war.


I totally disagree with your "ignore reality, accept the abstract machinations of this game as-is" mentality -- because then when its broke nobody will fix it in your philosophy.

I'm not saying anything's wrong right now, I'm just saying if it WERE you'd never bother fixing it unless you looked into it.