All the tazin

[john9001]

Originally posted by uberhun
John9001,
He invaded Iran when Cia director George Bush senior gave him the green light.
He invaded Kuwait because he thought his relationship with the United states would support it because we had propped up his regime.
(He did not understand global banking.)
He threatened Saudi Arabia and Israel. After we started bombing him.
 

yes, of course, i forgot, it's always americas fault, the great white devils.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Care to post the entire context of the incident? The officer did over react. But the driver also continually escalated the situation very foolishly. And had he done it 10 to 20 years ago, he'd likely have taken an bellybutton whipping. It's stupid to become confrontational with an officer. You won't win. You only make your situation worse.

By the way, I had an idiot do the same thing to me when I was a deputy sheriff about 20 years ago. I didn't taze him, shoot him, or hit him. But when he acted an bellybutton and drove off, I chased him down and arrested him for resisting arrest, wreckless driving, flight to avoid prosecution and a couple of other charges. All he had to do was sign the ticket. It says right next to the line you sign on "your signature is NOT an admission of guilt". The judge called him a fool and gave him 11 months and 29 days. He lost his job and his car, and barely kept his house.

Then you did the right thing.
and you didnt need to Taz of shoot him in the process. Imagine that.

In my eyes in that story you come out smelling like roses.
A cop who did hisw job the way it should be done.
And he comes off to me as being just as the judge says. a "fool"

Had you tazed him. In my eyes you would have come off as being every bit the jerk as the driver.

Arguing with a cop is no justification for tazing. Period

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by yankedudel
Or if you would prefer no police at all...let me know how that goes.

Works for me.
Im more then capable of taking care of myself.

But Im kinda old fashioned that way

[Chairboy]

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Then you did the right thing.
and you didnt need to Taz of shoot him in the process. Imagine that.

In my eyes in that story you come out smelling like roses.
A cop who did hisw job the way it should be done.
And he comes off to me as being just as the judge says. a "fool"

Had you tazed him. In my eyes you would have come off as being every bit the jerk as the driver.

Arguing with a cop is no justification for tazing. Period

Ok, dont taz the driver, he jumps in his car, you have to chase him,  he gets a couple miles down the road and crashes into a minivan with kids from a baseball game...  I say taz him,  unless you prefer smacking them around or shooting them... that works too...

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by uberhun
My bad on daddy Bushes career path Regan, GHWB gave him the green light.

Really? How so? In 1980, who pray tell was President? And what positions did George H. W. Bush and Ronald Reagan hold in 1980? And how did either give Saddam "the green light" to invade Iran?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Then you did the right thing.
and you didnt need to Taz of shoot him in the process. Imagine that.

In my eyes in that story you come out smelling like roses.
A cop who did hisw job the way it should be done.
And he comes off to me as being just as the judge says. a "fool"

Had you tazed him. In my eyes you would have come off as being every bit the jerk as the driver.

Arguing with a cop is no justification for tazing. Period

Had he crashed, and killed or maimed himself or others, would I still have been correct? Want to bet I'd have been sued? Hell, I got sued for hitting a guy who spit in my face and kicked me in the groin, while he was resisting arrest! You can bet that if the guy who ran from me had caused some sort of incident, I would have been blamed.

If the Utah officer had grabbed the driver, and stopped him from walking away, and ended up laying him out in the struggle, and the driver ended up with injuries, would that have been better than tazing him? Because you can bet that to arrest him because he refused to sign the ticket, you'd have either had to taze him, or physically restrain him by force. He was NOT going to comply, period. He was defiant even after he was tazed.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Airscrew
Ok, dont taz the driver, he jumps in his car, you have to chase him,  he gets a couple miles down the road and crashes into a minivan with kids from a baseball game...  I say taz him,  unless you prefer smacking them around or shooting them... that works too...

Shooting no. Smacking around I have no problem with.
My views on the Tazer are pretty well known here.
so I dont think I need to go through all that again.

And he only rockets down the road and crashes into a mini van if you feel your manhood has been insulted and decide to rocket after him.
You guys have radios.
Use them for something other then ordering dunkin doughnuts.

You have his licence number and his plate number. The color of the car. What he looks like.Unless hes from out of state odds are hes not planning on leaving the country over a traffic ticket.



No need to do your part to help create a dangerous situation because you cant stand the fact he ran away from you.

And lets be honest. you all dont go running after someone because they pose a danger. You do it because you are the almighty Policeman and you can.

Even a dog will only run from you so long as you keep chasing him.

I heard a report a week or so ago that more cops died last year in car wreaks then from gunshots.

Why contribute and add to a bad situation that puts the runner. the minivan AND YOU at added risk?

Is it worth it for a traffic ticket?

Next time try it my way. He runs after a stop. Let him.
Wait 2 hours then go knock on his door and pick him up.
Odds are thats exactly where he will be.

I never ran from cops not because I didnt know I could get away. Loosing the cop car was the easy part.

Reason I never ran was. He already knew my info. Where was I going to go?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Had he crashed, and killed or maimed himself or others, would I still have been correct? Want to bet I'd have been sued? Hell, I got sued for hitting a guy who spit in my face and kicked me in the groin, while he was resisting arrest! You can bet that if the guy who ran from me had caused some sort of incident, I would have been blamed.

If the Utah officer had grabbed the driver, and stopped him from walking away, and ended up laying him out in the struggle, and the driver ended up with injuries, would that have been better than tazing him? Because you can bet that to arrest him because he refused to sign the ticket, you'd have either had to taze him, or physically restrain him by force. He was NOT going to comply, period. He was defiant even after he was tazed.

Read above post for part of my responce.

the Jury is still out on the dangers of Tazing. to date little independant research has been done on the dangers of Tazing.
What little research has been done point to the Tazer as being potentially lethal.

All other reaserch  conducted has been done has either been financed by. conducted by. or supervised by Tazer international.

tazer International of course denies any claims of it being a dangerous product

Thats kinda like asking the mafia to investigate itself for criminal activity and expecting it come back with an honest answer.

My view. they should be taken off the market.
And cops should be forbidden to have them let alone use them.

Me personally I've stated how I would personally view a tazing on myself as a direct attempt on my life. And would respond accordingly.

[Pooh21]

Originally posted by john9001
might not be so bad if the police just went after the real criminals and left the citizens alone, or at least showed some respect to citizens that have committed some minor offense.

Makes them feel big and badarse cause they know the citizen cant do anything

[Shamus]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts


If the Utah officer had grabbed the driver, and stopped him from walking away, and ended up laying him out in the struggle, and the driver ended up with injuries, would that have been better than tazing him? Because you can bet that to arrest him because he refused to sign the ticket, you'd have either had to taze him, or physically restrain him by force. He was NOT going to comply, period. He was defiant even after he was tazed.

How about if the Utah officer had written "refused to sign" on the citation and left it at that. it was an option you know.

shamus

[sgt203]

As it stands right now like it or not tasers are considered very low on the use of force continum.

They stand along the lines of pepper spray, below hands on contact with those who are resisting arrest.

Having said that I agree that "refused to sign" could have been an option unless there is a State Law that dictates otherwise that I am not aware of.

I also have to agree that "rocketing down the road" or engaging in a high speed pursuit of someone over a minor traffic violation, when you already have the information of the driver is risky and in my opinion foolish.

Most Police Officers I know have no desire to engage in any pursuit however at times it is an occupational hazard. It is dangerous for both the officer and the public in general. However at times necessary.

You should always factor in the gravity of the crime and the need for immediate apprehension against the dangers prior to engaging in a pursuit.

The typical response though that "police should go after real criminals" always amuses me. If it is a crime it is a crime. Yes some are more serious than others but breaking the law is simply that breaking the law. However, yes, police should treat people with the respect that they deserve. If you commit a minor offense and act like a jackprettythang to the police do you really expect you should be treated with respect. Respect is a two way street.

Yes Dred police have radios but to my knowledge a radio call in and of itself has never stopped any car fleeing from the police. And trust in the fact they are used in just about EVERY chase.

I also agree with your point Dred that arguing with a Police Officer is in and of itself NO JUSTIFICATION for the use of a Taser, or any other use of force for that matter. However, if after being advised you are under arrest you fail to submit to that arrest and try to walk away, run away, or in any other fashion remove yourself from the arrest is justificatication for the use of force. And as I stated, right now, Tasers are considered a lower level of use of force than any hands on application of force.

Unless you have walked in the shoes of those making split second decisions in situations that are rapidly evolving, tense and uncertain you probably have little idea as to what it is like.

However feel free to sit behind the safety of your computer monitors and look at every incident through the clarity of 20/20 hindsight, with time to think the situation through. And feel free to judge those who are in those situations, making those decisions in fractions of seconds, who know if they make a mistake it could cost them their lives.

As with any profession there are those that are good and those that are bad. To me personally, those officers that violate the law, while under the color of their authority as police officers should receive the harshest sentence for their actions allowable by law. They are below contempt.

It is unfortunate that the actions of the few, at times it seems to, allow those with personal animosity to paint all or most with the same wide brush.

Beleive it or not there are many, many more good Officers out there than bad ones.


Edit: Dred having re-read my post it sounded like I was directing the last few paragraphs at you.. I was not.  <>