FSO Issue

[Imoutfishing]

As a whole the FSO event remain's the pride of the AH events.    

With the change's in squad size & and fellow FSO participant's I am finding it harder and harder to find a good fight on a Friday night.  The set up's seem to be there but the fight isn't.  

There seem's to be more & more "rules" and less planning in each event.

The FSO was based on a common concept that few seem to follow anymore.  The rules seem to dis-favor larger squads in the manor of plane selection's now and play favor to the less established & undermaned groups of flyer's.  Try not to forget what got us to this point please.

If this is the direction we are going I will break up our squad and form several small squads so we can get a nice ride from time to time.  

Then there is the fact that you can be bounced from FSO's for not showing up in numbers... I can combat that to  

Sled seem's sharp but he is simply trying to wrangle cat's at this point.  

FSO's are in far & pail to what we used to have.  It's on the verge of a joke:)

Another issue is the massive holes in the AH plane set.  It would help out big time if we would get the HE111 & the Betty for the CM's to work with.  Why is it so hard to give us a plane from time to time?

MGD

[trax1]

IMHO I find the FSO's to still be alot of fun.  It's a rare occasion in an FSO were me and my squad have trouble finding a fight, and I think that they are gonna be even more fun now that the CM's are trying to include GV's into the event, it's gonna add a whole new aspect to the FSO.

[shreck]

lol GVs will be fodder only, almost all AH players are tooooo good at bombing! If vehicle icons are removed, this may change a little, though only a little. also altering graphics and shooting thru hills and trees etc. will allow those folks to start gaming the game in FSO---> NO THANKS <

[ROC]

The FSOs are consistently pushing the 300 limit.  That's a good sign that things are heading in the right direction as a whole.  Each event has it's good and bad, you should remember this from being a former FSO guy.

Why is it so hard to give us a plane from time to time?

Who are you asking?  You know where the wishlist is, you also know we can't fix that  Ask where it can do some good.

As far as Sled wrangling cat's, I'm not sure I understand that point.  Sled is the lead for the FSO team,  are you saying his CMs are unmanageable or are you generally insulting the players overall?  Both of which are clearly out of line and incorrect in your assumptions.

The players do quite well as a group, the CMs do quite well in their effort.

Or did I misunderstand the cat wrangling analogy?

[Krusty]

You say "seems there's a lot more rules and a lot less planning" -- and I take issues with that statement.

I've done some wargaming at the upper levels before. I've helped design and plan rulesets. If you DON'T have rules, the spirit of the event is broken. Big time. I think the FSO has been around so long that enough people "think outside the box" to the point we need new rules.


Good for them, thinking creatively, from a problem-solving aspect. However, bad for the overall event, bad for getting folks to fight others.


Think of it this way: The rules actually HELP you find the fight. The other rules curtail lame and distasteful actions that one side might do to the other. And finally, the rules help score who wins a setup.


No, there aren't "too many rules" -- but rather there are too many folks that have tried to bend the rules to the point the rules had to be refined, reworded, or reworked. It means we're dealing with smart folks, if this happens, but it also means they have to use their smarts inside a set of limitations for the best results for everyone.


If you have issues with how a CO plans, take it up with them. It changes every week, and you cannot blame one FSO's lack of planning on the next FSO's CO.

[Getback]

I don't fly much FSO's or actually haven't flown many. However, that last FSO was great! I was in spit something or another. Not the best plane but it took care of a Ki84, Nik, and 3 Ki67s.

We have tiny squad this time. Can we have 262s?

What were you in last frame Imoutfishin?

One frame our squad received ju87s. We laughed it off and told our CO, We who are about to die Salute you. You know that was still fun. I had the most incredible crash in that game. Bounced of the enemy runway struck a building and slid into a barn and never died. Should have filmed it.

[Imoutfishing]

Take an issue with anything I might say that's why we have a forum after all.  

The FSO in a shadow of what it once was.  

Yes the numbers seem great but the feel or the general take on the experiance has been greatly deminished as a whole.  The so called "noob's" seem to fill the bill as far as the numbers go but this does not correct the overall field of play during an FSO.  

Give me a guy that flew two years ago that claims FSO's are the same as they once were... I just might take his word but that will not happen.  The game has changed during this time.  

There are a ton of you guy's out there who flew two years ago but you better have CiC'ed a frame before you pony up:)  So please don't post unless you have as it just would not matter over all.

Again take it at face value please.  It's a personal evaluation and for the few that can compaire the FSO of the past & now are qualified to judge.

MGD

[Virage]

Squads should be guaranteed to get their first plane choice in at least 1 of the frames.

Scenarios MUST be balanced.   3-5 fight areas that are sufficiently spread out to avoid the 'Rolling Horde' CIC tactic.  Spreading out the fight areas also avoids the 'find closest base and vulch ' behavior.  I would even suggest requiring the CIC's to assign the same number of pilots to each fight to avoid large number imbalances.  To die by Horde is no fun.  FSO should be about execution, not which CIC can play the numbers game better.  If it is a offensive/defensive scenario (8th AF) I suggest 60/40 split.  

2 lives for all Bombers and Attack planes.  If you are assigned a bomb to carry, you get another plane.  FSO sacrifices half of its player base so the other half can think they are heros.  We ask a lot of a player to participate in FSO, let's not reward them by kicking them out after getting shot down early.   Give the 'target' planes reason to show up.

Ask for CIC volunteers before assigning.  

Move the time forward an hour to 10pm EST.  I'm old and can't stay up past midnight anymore.  Seriously, Making FSO primetime for all US timezones will help its popularity. (no complaints from Guam!)

I think these ideas will erase many grumbles.  The fact that many established FSO squads are belly aching or just going away says its time to focus on what makes FSO a success.

[Getback]

Let's see here if I understand, you cannot say anything unless you cic'd an fso. Doesn't that eliminate about 90% of the participants! Plus a new rule is trying to be introduced. I saw this one coming. It's an attempt to take away the voice of many. You ever think that those 90% are much like your customers? Without them there is no FSO period.

Frankly, if you want a cic forum then perhaps you should ask for one or create one in some other venue. As this one is full open for discussion. Beware of that tactic, you will kill what so many have worked hard to build and promote. How? By building mistrust and having people second guess what's going on.

Im sure there are avenues for discussion on what has changed. I like what virage has to say. He's chosen the path of problem solving.

In my humble opinion the FSOs seem to be going gang busters. Man there was a lot of action in the last FSO I was in. It seemed good for everyone I was near.

At first I thought this thread was lame. Now I don't think so at all. I believe that this discussion really needed to take place in the open.

[RATTFINK]

It's hard for CiC's to give everyone their plane choice but it should be discussed between the Squad CO's and the CiC of the frame.

I CiC'd a frame & the week leading up to the Friday I noticed ALOT of poor communication among the squads that I was assigning rides to.  I think I only heard from & had help from 3 CO's.

The only problem that I see w/ the past FSO's [& I have discussed this on the FSO forum already] was... Communication.

I was not in FSO two years ago but I see your point MGD & I will take your word for it.  I think some squads (mine included) should be evaluated before attending FSO.  My squad has teamed up w/ other FSO squads due to the CiC orders & the 50% of them have been AWESOM while the others need to either Show up, Follow the orders, or Communicate.

I believe discussing this is a healthy thing to do & I really think we can get better as a whole.

[WOLF359]

Same with the frame I CIC'd.  I think I was able to give the preference to about 90% of requests.

[Imoutfishing]

The CiC issue is a big one.  With three CiC's for every FSO there is a great loss of tactical responsibility.  We seem to have adopted the "leave the next guy" the problems way of thinking.

If thats the way we are going that's cool we can play it frame to frame but that delete's the basis the FSO was based on.  

As and end result the the FSO has been cheapened by that much more.  

We need an upgrade in game play to match the current player base.  & yes I can explain

MGD

[humble]

Originally posted by Imoutfishing
Take an issue with anything I might say that's why we have a forum after all.  

The FSO in a shadow of what it once was.  

Yes the numbers seem great but the feel or the general take on the experiance has been greatly deminished as a whole.  The so called "noob's" seem to fill the bill as far as the numbers go but this does not correct the overall field of play during an FSO.  

Give me a guy that flew two years ago that claims FSO's are the same as they once were... I just might take his word but that will not happen.  The game has changed during this time.  

There are a ton of you guy's out there who flew two years ago but you better have CiC'ed a frame before you pony up:)  So please don't post unless you have as it just would not matter over all.

Again take it at face value please.  It's a personal evaluation and for the few that can compaire the FSO of the past & now are qualified to judge.

MGD

I flew FSO when I was in the AK's (a few yrs ago) and I fly them when I can now. I've been here since Beta...FSO is just fine. Now from what I can see your just spewing some venom for some reason...is it maybe that your one of the guys who liked to "Game the game"? I'm not trying to be confrontational but the only rule changes I have ssen are designed to reign in CiC's who got too "cute" and violated the intent of the design.

[humble]

Originally posted by Virage
Squads should be guaranteed to get their first plane choice in at least 1 of the frames.

Scenarios MUST be balanced.   3-5 fight areas that are sufficiently spread out to avoid the 'Rolling Horde' CIC tactic.  Spreading out the fight areas also avoids the 'find closest base and vulch ' behavior.  I would even suggest requiring the CIC's to assign the same number of pilots to each fight to avoid large number imbalances.  To die by Horde is no fun.  FSO should be about execution, not which CIC can play the numbers game better.  If it is a offensive/defensive scenario (8th AF) I suggest 60/40 split.  

2 lives for all Bombers and Attack planes.  If you are assigned a bomb to carry, you get another plane.  FSO sacrifices half of its player base so the other half can think they are heros.  We ask a lot of a player to participate in FSO, let's not reward them by kicking them out after getting shot down early.   Give the 'target' planes reason to show up.

Ask for CIC volunteers before assigning.  

Move the time forward an hour to 10pm EST.  I'm old and can't stay up past midnight anymore.  Seriously, Making FSO primetime for all US timezones will help its popularity. (no complaints from Guam!)

I think these ideas will erase many grumbles.  The fact that many established FSO squads are belly aching or just going away says its time to focus on what makes FSO a success.

My 1st frame "back" we had B5N's and our escort got overwelmed. The opposing strike force pickled its ords and bounced us in their TBM's. We still got thru and sunk the cruiser and a good part of the escort (no CV in task group). Had a blast, was in a burning B5N with about zero chance of living long enough for a proper drop so had to "lob bomb" and caught just enugh of the cruiser to sink her (had been hit multiple times already). Ask the guys from VT-8 about plane choice and second lives. The "target planes" have just as much reason to show up as anyone else. In fact the target planes normally decide the outcome and the battle is between both sides "hero's" and the ability of the target to get the mail home.

[Getback]

Yeah, I'm getting old too. move that up a notch to around 10pm.


Thanks for bringing that up Virage.