Author Topic: Ki-84 U.S. testing (Read 5248 times)

Widewing · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2008, 11:33:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy

At any rate there we have it. The Ki-84 has amazing performance... better speed than any PTO Allied or Axis plane operating.

Could you elaborate on that?

There's been enough bullsheet written about Japanese fighters to keep a stable boy employed till retirement, and enough in this thread to keep him busy at the old folks home thereafter.

My regards,

Widewing

SgtPappy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2008, 08:27:46 AM »

Hah, that's the thing. I can't elaborate on that... not yet anyway which is why I'm trying to find official proof.

If these tests were done with 100/130 octane and that Hayate did actually fly at aroun 437 mph, it's probably safe to say, at the least, that its performance is better than the current flight model... not that there's anything wrong with that.

Stoney74 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:05:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
Hah, that's the thing. I can't elaborate on that... not yet anyway which is why I'm trying to find official proof.

If these tests were done with 100/130 octane and that Hayate did actually fly at aroun 437 mph, it's probably safe to say, at the least, that its performance is better than the current flight model... not that there's anything wrong with that.

437 is not "better speed than any PTO Allied...plane operating"...Not by a long shot.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2008, 06:07:09 PM »

Yes, very true. I pretty much over exaggerated there, I admit.
Just in our game, you have to admit, that would be pretty high performance... not the best but quite good indeed.

Karnak · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2008, 07:00:38 PM »

Ki-84 was undoubtedly the best Japanese fighter to see significant service and the only Japanese fighter that could, potentially, meet Allied fighters as an equal.

I would not be surprised if the Ha-45-21 powered Ki-84s performed better, in some cases, than the Ki-84 in AH. However, I would be very surprised if any Ki-84 exceeded 410mph in level flight in Japanese service.

If the Japanese industry had not been crippled by the US armed forces and the stupidity of the Japanese government the Ki-84 would have been relatively competitive with most US fighters being employed in the final two years of WWII, if notably less durable to wear and tear. As it was, the Ki-84's potential was crippled by the lack of good fuel, quality control, poor maintainance and lack of well trained pilots.

The Ki-84 was a potentially great fighter, but to say it was decively superior to Allied types is pure hyperbole.

Widewing · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2008, 07:32:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
Hah, that's the thing. I can't elaborate on that... not yet anyway which is why I'm trying to find official proof.

If these tests were done with 100/130 octane and that Hayate did actually fly at aroun 437 mph, it's probably safe to say, at the least, that its performance is better than the current flight model... not that there's anything wrong with that.

I haven't seen anything to support 437 mph... maybe 425 mph, sans ammo, paint and highly polished, with a perfectly tuned motor running fuel that the Japanese didn't have.

The reality of things is that the Ki-84 was a sub 400 mph fighter, with less than stellar performance at medium altitudes.

Japanese industry wasn't quite capable of producing the type and quality of fighters required to compete with the US and Britain. Indeed, the next generation of Allied fighters, many of which would have been in combat by September of 1945, opened the gap even wider.

My regards,

Widewing

skaltura · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2008, 08:49:05 PM »

Just a note: no model of the Homare had direct injection. The system described by some authors as such was basically similar to the Bendix-Stromberg pressure carburettor, i.e. basically a single point injection. But not buhara.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:19:57 PM »

Very true, WW... Japanese industry had barely the mobility/efficiency of US factories.

Thanks Skaltura; where'd you find that info ?

Charge · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2008, 03:33:44 AM »

"But not buhara."

Eh? Wazzat?

The only "buhara" I know is a Persian mat.

-C+

skaltura · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2008, 01:02:48 PM »

Charge, are you Finnish? If so, the explanation for the buhara can be had from AA taskukirja 34. Check out the story where Mickey is pretending to buy a Persian mat.

Pappy: I got the info from Graham White who in turn got the info from an SAE paper written on the Homare by a former Nakajima engineer involved in its development.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2008, 04:39:44 PM »

Oh wow, that's gotta be good info. thanks Skal.

BigPlay · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2008, 03:27:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
I haven't seen anything to support 437 mph... maybe 425 mph, sans ammo, paint and highly polished, with a perfectly tuned motor running fuel that the Japanese didn't have.

The reality of things is that the Ki-84 was a sub 400 mph fighter, with less than stellar performance at medium altitudes.

Japanese industry wasn't quite capable of producing the type and quality of fighters required to compete with the US and Britain. Indeed, the next generation of Allied fighters, many of which would have been in combat by September of 1945, opened the gap even wider.

My regards,

Widewing

Actually the Japs had some pretty amazing aircraft on the drawing board as well. The P-80 was a piece of crap so please don't use that as an example. The bearcat would have been interesting and was a ubber plane that would have given any axis plane a run for it's money. The US really didnt have another great plane until German captured info became available.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2008, 03:44:01 PM »

I should make a correction.. the data sheets I've seen have said 427 mph, but those US data sheets did not come with any kind of test information, criteria or variables. It was just a sheet, suggesting it was a theoretical test.

The Ki-84, however, likely is faster than the F4U for example because the Hayate is lighter, smaller, has around 1900 hp at max. possible ratings (if that figure is accurate) and definitely seems much more aerodynamic. If anything, it's fast, but I'm still not sure about that 427 mph figure. WW is likely correct about it with no ammo or paint.

I once had a book by Granger publishing all about WWII aircraft. The ki-84 was pictured in aluminum coating, US markings and a caption stated that it was tested in the US.

dtango · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2008, 04:20:56 PM »

If you're curious, here is the definitive thread where the topic of the Ki-84 top speed in the AH FM we have is covered many moons ago

.

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=134252&referrerid=3699

Pyro made his conclusions based on a lot of collaboration with busa who provided some very detailed research in Japan on the topic.

Page 5 is where busa starts to explain some of the details he uncovered that he had passed on to Pyro for modelling the Ki-84.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Stoney74 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:06:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SgtPappy
The Ki-84, however, likely is faster than the F4U for example because the Hayate is lighter, smaller, has around 1900 hp at max. possible ratings (if that figure is accurate) and definitely seems much more aerodynamic.

And what resource, other than your own deduction, did you use to form this opinion? By this reasoning, a Spitfire should be faster than a P-47, but its not, not by a long shot.