Author Topic: HO Evasion  (Read 2173 times)

Offline goober69

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HO Evasion
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 07:02:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bongaroo
add one of these ;)

or one of these :aok

or maybe even one of these :rolleyes:

to help us see your trying to be sarcastic, otherwise it just looked like bad advice given in the training section, which easily gets people riled up.

K?

:aok



lol thats what the lol's were for oops
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Offline gpwurzel

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HO Evasion
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 01:09:59 PM »
Rich, keep at it m8. As I said in the "are you good enough to know when he's going to ho" thread, I used to get ho'd a lot (every single time..lol)

I now take it for granted that I'll get ho'd, and my basic merge (not every time tho as it makes you predictable) is to line myseslf up as *if* I'm going to ho back, until you get to 2k - 1.5k out (timing is everything as you dont want to let them know what you are up to), I then go into a dive (shallow, but enough to take my nose off of them and start a gentle turn (and I mean gentle), once they miss the shot (most of them do, unless its a vet and Im screwed then anyway...lol), its easy enough to loop over em, roll up and over or some over fancy dan move I have no idea how to explain. I still die a lot, am by no means a skillful pilot, but I get a fair share of kills now and then - and I dont get frustrated by people trying to ho me...

The above isnt the only way, but thats what I do.....ymmv.


Wurzel
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline BaldEagl

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HO Evasion
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 01:24:36 PM »
Rich, glad to hear you're finally taking up the challenge of flying something other than bombers.  It will give you a whole new perspective on the game and the discussions on the BBs.

As to HO avoidance, if you dont intend to stick around and fight the guy, a simple nose down manouver or barrel role is often enough to throw off his shot.  You fly through and, since he has to reverse 180, you're gone by the time he does.

If you plan on fighting think of it in these terms; If you both fly straight at each other (or close to it), you aren't setting up to aquire his six.  You can't.  At best, after the merge, if you both turn (immel, etc.), you're probably going to end up facing one another nose to nose again.  And the cycle continues until someone breaks it (probably to their detriment), extends or wins a HO or high forward deflection shot.

So, to avoid this, you need to create seperation (vertical or horizontal) so that your already turning for his six as you merge.  That might mean you have to turn out, briefly showing your belly but that's ok if the timing is right.  Roll out, then back in, or dive and pull back up.  Either way he'll have to turn into you and the fight begins.  At least you're past the HO and now it's time to use your acm to gain angles.  There is still the possibility of a high deflection forward shot on the merge but you'll just have to learn what that looks like, and the angles needed to avoid it (or take it).
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Offline Rich46yo

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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2008, 02:59:16 PM »
Ya thats actually the problem Im having. Its in using the views, and keeping my eyes on the enemy, and, setting up the fight in 3D space. Actually flying the fighters is easy, I at least learned that much from flying bombers and in that regard its a step I wont have to first take.

                  But Ive also been losing control to much because the various fighters, of course, have different handling characteristics. With bombers that much less a problem because you just aren't pulling the same maneuvers. Its all very different and like i said the biggest problem is keeping enemies in views and setting up the fight in 3D space. That and learning the strengths of different fighters.

                  I'll say this tho. Flying the P-38L is like driving a Cadillac. Until you force it into a spin that is. I can spend an hour in the TA just zooming thru the clouds in the 38, its just that lovely an aircraft to fly. Flying the LA7 is like flying a quick knife fighter. I really like the Hurricane and to a little lesser extent the spit.

                 I probably will never be a really, really good fighter stick. I will probably always like flying bombers more. But I do at least want to learn them and consider it a necessary step to learn the game. Its painful tho Ive been getting shot down almost every time.

               And Ive also learned why the more established players spend a lot of time in the DA. There are a lot of cheap shots taken in the MA.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 03:02:50 PM by Rich46yo »
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Offline gpwurzel

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HO Evasion
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2008, 04:33:12 PM »
Rich, I'm in the same boat, I'll never be a really really good fighter stick - but its fun trying to learn :D . I fly buffs once in a while, and find it interesting as hell, but boring at the same time (go figure). I dont enjoy it as much as a fighter, but each to their own. Keep on with the fighters - the only *tip* as such I have, is to pick just one, keep flying it until you know its characteristics - then fly it lots more (I like the Spit 5 personally - not fast enough to run away, but good enough turner to make it difficult for others).

I'd be happy to meet up with ya in the TA anytime - not that I can impart a lot of knowledge (I dont have any lol) - but it could give you some time to practise moving away, shooting etc. Will be away for 3 weeks or so, but if ya wanna go in the TA, lemme know mate.


Wurzel
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline BaldEagl

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HO Evasion
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 08:21:55 PM »
Rich, try flying off-line.  Take off from one of the fields, then select an object on the field.  Go through all types of manouvers keeping that field object in sight.  Once you have that down pat go up to the drones.  Pick one out and start manouvering all around it, coming from above, below, in front and behind, rolling around it, etc. while always keeping it in view.

The view system has to become second nature to you so you're not even thinking about it in combat.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline humble

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HO Evasion
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 09:46:23 PM »
Rich,

Avoiding the HO is actually pretty easy. Anytime you see me up in the MA feel free to ride along for a hop or two. I'm kind of going back to the hog a bit more but still fly the A-20 alot. Trust me if you can avoid the HO in an A-20 you can avoid it in anything...

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Offline Rich46yo

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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2008, 05:36:24 AM »
Thanks for the advice and the offers fellas.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline goober69

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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2008, 07:33:59 AM »
congrats rich on getting in fighters  small step in a big journey lol
ive gotten to where i rarely fly bombers if i do its so i can take a break for 30 min while my lancs get to alt lol jk
really i think ive done under ten bomber sorties this month i was doing more but general time constraints and such
flying as Marvin57
"we few we happy few,
  we band of brothers;"
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Offline Lance48

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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2008, 11:26:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Everything in this post is just another shining example of the puss boil that sits on the face of Aces High.


1. Wow!

2. I'm new here so forgive me if I've taken some of your responses out of context, but .....

3. Wow!

Some of you guys seem overly harsh. It's a freekin game! And even if you all think you are the reincarnation of Pappy Boyington, don’t you think your opinion would come off a bit more respectable if it were couched less in childish anger and more in seasoned mentorship?

I’ve come here to learn, but I’m not sure I’d want to listen to people who react this way….ABOUT A GAME!


All of that being said....why all the emotion about HO's?

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2008, 11:57:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lance48
1. Wow!

2. I'm new here so forgive me if I've taken some of your responses out of context, but .....

3. Wow!

Some of you guys seem overly harsh. It's a freekin game! And even if you all think you are the reincarnation of Pappy Boyington, don’t you think your opinion would come off a bit more respectable if it were couched less in childish anger and more in seasoned mentorship?

I’ve come here to learn, but I’m not sure I’d want to listen to people who react this way….ABOUT A GAME!


All of that being said....why all the emotion about HO's?


I was only referring to that one individuals post ... not the whole thread.

The thread was started with the intention of "helping" him avoid HOs. The post that I came down on did nothing to address the question, but rather endorsed the using of an HO.

The HO is an overused attack within Aces High, which IMHO, is not necessarily ruining the game, but it sure doesn't add anything to it.

Why are the angst about HOs ?

You almost answered your own question ... it's a game.

With that in mind, then why constantly (as a good amount of pilots do) go for the HO ? ... it's practically a 50 / 50 chance of dieing everytime you do it.

Where is the fun in that ? ... for both you and your opponent.

This is a "game" all about Air-to-Air combat ... so why not try to excel at just that ? Running around HOing everybody and anybody in your gunsight is far from  Air-to-Air combat.

If your gonna take a 50 / 50 shot and die with those odds ... then why the hell not take it to the next level and see if you can actually use the strengths of your aircraft and take advantage of the weaknesses of your opposing aircraft to see if you can actually "fight" in that plane.

I mean, if your gonna die, you might as well die trying your best ... and in the long run ... with a goal of actually trying to master Air-to-Air combat and not being afraid to die ... you will eventually excel.

People who constantly HO ... NEVER excel.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Lance48

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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2008, 12:04:06 PM »
Thank you

Offline The Fugitive

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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2008, 12:04:35 PM »
what he said ^^^^   :)

Offline CAP1

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HO Evasion
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2008, 04:21:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
Rich, glad to hear you're finally taking up the challenge of flying something other than bombers.  It will give you a whole new perspective on the game and the discussions on the BBs.

As to HO avoidance, if you dont intend to stick around and fight the guy, a simple nose down manouver or barrel role is often enough to throw off his shot.  You fly through and, since he has to reverse 180, you're gone by the time he does.

]
1)i generally WANT to fight..for which reason i try to avoid the HO.....and really, most don't need to HO me to win a fight(or they could really suck THAT bad?)



If you plan on fighting think of it in these terms; If you both fly straight at each other (or close to it), you aren't setting up to aquire his six.  You can't.  At best, after the merge, if you both turn (immel, etc.), you're probably going to end up facing one another nose to nose again.  And the cycle continues until someone breaks it (probably to their detriment), extends or wins a HO or high forward deflection shot.

2)i find myself in this a lot.........and sometimes even when i don't fly straight at the guy/..i try an off angle immel, or i try to dive under, or under and off to his side, rolling bakc into him....but find he seems to be able to bring his nose round faster than me.....



So, to avoid this, you need to create seperation (vertical or horizontal) so that your already turning for his six as you merge.  That might mean you have to turn out, briefly showing your belly but that's ok if the timing is right.  Roll out, then back in, or dive and pull back up.  Either way he'll have to turn into you and the fight begins.  At least you're past the HO and now it's time to use your acm to gain angles.  There is still the possibility of a high deflection forward shot on the merge but you'll just have to learn what that looks like, and the angles needed to avoid it (or take it).

3) now the problem i get here.....when i DO try to create seperation, it seems as if the bogie turns directly into me 99% of the time....and i STILL end up in the situation above...unles i run away(which i hate as i want the fight..win or lose, THAT'S the fun)


now slightly off topic......shuffler......sinc e i figure you're reading these....if i sounded like an assss last night, i apologize......the whole time i knew it must've ben someone good as we couldn't bait you into coming down and fighting no matter how we tried. i was just getting very frustrated, as i couldn't find any fights that didn't have the bogies at a min of 10k alt, or ganging....i still don't know how to fight a higher enemy, and don't think i'm far enough along to learn yet. i actually hate that map as it breeds last nights styp of situations......i climb to 10k, bogies at 14 or 15...next sortie i go to 15, bogies at 18 or 20k....i go to 20k, and they're STILL dots above me........sooooo....sorry dude<>

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Offline CAP1

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HO Evasion
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2008, 04:23:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
Rich,

Avoiding the HO is actually pretty easy. Anytime you see me up in the MA feel free to ride along for a hop or two. I'm kind of going back to the hog a bit more but still fly the A-20 alot. Trust me if you can avoid the HO in an A-20 you can avoid it in anything...


doesn't the A20 have something like 8 50's?? and people STILL try to HO ya???:rolleyes:
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)