190a5 turn

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by moot
Just a placebo I think Xasthur.. I manage fine with the 2x20 and 1x30 in the 152.  They are definitely less powerful than the Hispanos, but not anemic either.  The only plane I find a bit underpowered is the D9.  But you just have to stay on target a little longer than usual.  There's gobs of ammo, so it's not that bad.

I've noticed the same underpowered performance in the 20mms that you've notived in D9 in all other 190 variants too..

The 109 seems different... the 1 x 20mm seems to hit just as hard as the two which doesn't seem right to me.

I've also noticed that it comes and goes too... It might be a connection issue... The other night I was flying the A5 with the 4 x 20mm loadout and I'd hit targets 2 or 3 times with no result.... later that night the same shots would pull an aircraft apart with little effort.

I believe that my connection is pretty good too... perhaps latency or something given that I'm in Australia... who knows.

In any case I see no difference between the D9 and A5 when using the same cannon load-out.

I'll have to try the 2 x 20 loadout on the A5 again and see if it makes that much difference. I do pretty well with the 4 x 20mm load.

[moot]

I think there was a definite calculation of damage which showed the MG151/20 to be less powerful than the Hispano in AH.

In practice, there's definitely the most noise in the data from lost packets, or rubber bullets, or whatever it is. Recently I've had a lot of planes shrug off one or two (or three, once) 30mm hits.

It's my impression that the 151/20 can do as much damage as a hispano if you hit with the 151/20 at high speed relative to your target...  Which isn't that hard to do with a D9

[Anaxogoras]

The 109 seems different... the 1 x 20mm seems to hit just as hard as the two which doesn't seem right to me.

I've noticed the same thing sometimes, but it could be because only one of the 190A5/D9's cannons are hitting.  That's the whole idea behind the motorkannone.  Moreover, when you fire mg's plus cannon in the 109, they're almost always hitting in the same spot.

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by Anaxogoras
I've noticed the same thing sometimes, but it could be because only one of the 190A5/D9's cannons are hitting.  That's the whole idea behind the motorkannone.  Moreover, when you fire mg's plus cannon in the 109, they're almost always hitting in the same spot.

I have my convergence set in fairly tight on the 190s so there isn't a lot of room for dispersal. Most of the time both cannons are on target.

I rarely ever fire cannons and MGs in the 109 at the same time regardless of what cannon I have.

I set the MGs out a long way in order to 'tickle' a target into turning. I have the cannon set to 200 for 30mm and 300 for 20mm (or even 200 for 20mm sometimes) and only ever fire the cannon so as to not spoil the shot.


M00t, I have noticed that the tail section of the B 24 is particularly good at soaking up damage. 4 passes on one the other night... all landed at least 1 if not 2 seperate 30mm hits and I got nothing.

I killed the pilot in the other two but this third one just kept going.

[moot]

You think that's bad..  My rubber bullets were on spits and La's... hehe.  One hit in the fwd fuselage, another in the wingspar, and nothing. They just flew off, with at most an oil leak.
At first I thought I had imagined the 30mm animated hit sprite, but I checked the film and they're definitely 30mm rounds.

[MOSQ]

I did the turn and accel tests that Dok uses.

The 190A5 was turn tested with 4 cannons, not 2.

I can tell you the two cannon is significantly faster accelerating, about .5 sec across the board on all speed ranges and all fuel weights. So it makes sense the 2 cannon will turn a bit better. Maybe someday I'll go back and test the 2 cannon for turn performance.

[Whisky58]

Thanks Mosq - that answers my question and confirms my gut feeling.  I'd be very interested to see the results of your tests on the 2 cannon model.

Regards

[Anaxogoras]

I have my convergence set in fairly tight on the 190s so there isn't a lot of room for dispersal.

Well, then I don't know how to explain the effect you see, except for the fact that the MG151 sprays at all sorts of angles when I fire it on the runway offline.  I'm near 100% certain that the MG151 of the 109F-G is no more lethal than on the 190.

I agree with you to never fire the MG131s at the same time as the 30mm, but the balistics of the 20mm are good enough that you might really be missing out if you're not firing at the same time as the mg's when you're close in (in the 109).  It really makes a difference for shooting off those spitfire wings when you have a small window of opportunity.

[Widewing]

You gentlemen should keep something in mind as concerns the turning ability of the 190A-5 (or any other 190 type). Mosq's data reflects the use of full flaps. That's perfectly fine. Every other fighter was tested with full flaps.

The problem for the 190s is that you will rarely, if ever, get so slow as to be able to get the flaps fully down. This is important to remember as it makes a significant difference when fighting most fighters. That last notch of flaps (fully 1/2 of the total displacement) will not come down until you are so slow as to be virtually helpless.

My advice is to avoid flaps altogether flying 190s, unless coming over the top of a vertical maneuver.

My regards,

Widewing

[Xasthur]

Indeed, full flaps in a 190 is a very last-ditch effort.

If you're trying to force and over-shoot and you're almost there, the flaps do help you stay up and keep that wing-dropping stall under control a little.

[MOSQ]

Originally posted by Widewing
You gentlemen should keep something in mind as concerns the turning ability of the 190A-5 (or any other 190 type). Mosq's data reflects the use of full flaps. That's perfectly fine. Every other fighter was tested with full flaps.

The problem for the 190s is that you will rarely, if ever, get so slow as to be able to get the flaps fully down. This is important to remember as it makes a significant difference when fighting most fighters. That last notch of flaps (fully 1/2 of the total displacement) will not come down until you are so slow as to be virtually helpless.

My advice is to avoid flaps altogether flying 190s, unless coming over the top of a vertical maneuver.

My regards,

Widewing

WW, actually my tests are both no flaps and full flaps, and DoKtor GonZo  displays both sets of results on his website.

I have some planes tested with 1, 2, 3 notches, but what I found was that it really didn't change the standings relatively. In fact only a few planes moved up relative to other planes when going from no flaps to full flaps, the F4U being the notable exception to the rule.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by MOSQ
WW, actually my tests are both no flaps and full flaps, and DoKtor GonZo  displays both sets of results on his website.

I have some planes tested with 1, 2, 3 notches, but what I found was that it really didn't change the standings relatively. In fact only a few planes moved up relative to other planes when going from no flaps to full flaps, the F4U being the notable exception to the rule.

I should have been more specific. Where flaps are indicated, the flaps are fully down.

My regards,

Widewing

[trigger2]

Originally posted by Whisky58
Is 190a5's turn affected significantly by adding outer cannons & if so do Dokgonzo's performance figures relate to 2 or 4 cannon planes?
Thank you.

Doubt it really affects turn rate, probably more roll rate as theres slightly more weight added to the wings, but, in a 190, that should be no trouble...

P.S. if your trying to turn a 190, I suggest the TA a bit to find out *subliminal message*it's the worst turner in the game*end subliminal message* how to fly it :]

[TheThang]

The extra cannons have worst ballistics than the german 30mm. Don't use them.    On a side note the A5 is a has a horrible turn rate but with enough rolling and angling you can beat alot of planes with it.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by TheThang
The extra cannons have worst ballistics than the german 30mm.  

If you are trying to say "worse than the 30mm" - that's not quite correct.

For example at 600m (~660yds):

2cm M-Gesch FFM m. Zerl
time of flight: 1.43 seconds
drop: 7.63m  (~25ft)

3cm M-Gesch 108 m. Zerl. Ausf. A
time of flight: 1.66 seconds
drop: 11.1m (~36ft)